Greg Hibbard

Even if we did have a serious run to 28-22, recall that the 2002 team started with that record and yet still sputtered to 81 wins. The 2004 team started 29-21 and ended up with 83. Let's take a wait and see attitude until mid June before we go jumping on any bandwagons.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 19, 2012 -> 08:50 AM) 1 post-season win in 6 seasons, Dick. KW's record is what it is. So basically you're chastising our GM for baseball being the hardest sport to qualify for the playoffs in. 8 teams out of 30 go. In any other sport, our record in 2010 and 2006 would have sent us. Here is a list of other teams that have had 1 or less playoff win in the past six years; Toronto Baltimore Minnesota Kansas City Seattle Cubs Cincinnati Pittsburg Houston San Diego Florida Washington Atlanta 14 out of 30 teams haven't won more than 1 playoff game in the past 6 years. How many current GMs have won a world series anywhere?

My biggest worry: a 6-under record against AL teams through May a 10-over record against NL teams a 5-under record against the rest of the AL schedule grumblings about how close we were, despite the obstacles, if the team had only performed ....and no real long term plan. or in other words, what's come to be known as "a typical White Sox year."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 17, 2012 -> 12:31 PM) Welcome to rebuilding. You keep saying this as if it's an overt plan by the organization. In another thread, you said "they didn't" after someone said "....for a team that expects to compete." Am I missing something? Where exactly did they say "we are rebuilding"? I've never heard Williams say that, nor do I believe for a second that if this team was 3 games under but 3 games out that he would throw in the towel. Do you?

It's nauseating, but I could see KW saying "I put the White Sox in a position to compete for a division title in 2012, and so we needed to stand pat at the July deadline to see if they could do it...." I'm really afraid of this team being too .500ish and too close to the front for KW to do anything, when really it's past time to tear the whole thing down and suck for a couple of years, at least.

You don't lose your best hitter, you put your dh in the field somewhere if he is your best hitter. Losing the dh usually means you lose something like your sixth best hitter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 17, 2012 -> 09:31 AM) This team is going to be streaky this year. That's what happens when you have this many kids in the line up. That doesn't answer any of the questions I asked, though...

Outside of the infamous 4-18 stretch last year and a similarly abysmal 4-17 stretch in 2007, this is the worst 22 game stretch of baseball the White Sox have played since 2003, when they went 11-27 during a particularly brutal stretch of the early part of the season. As fans, are we finally willing to let go of this team having the potential of being competitive, regardless of the strength of our division, and more importantly, do Williams and co. finally have it in them to trade everything they can in July (Konerko, Peavy, Thornton and anyone else they can unload) and truly start over? Or....does one more three-four-five game win streak put this team back in neutral?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2012 -> 01:17 PM) Criticizing is fine, but calling out his "lack of experience" when you don't have anywhere near his experience is like the guy who never goes to games but complains about the attendance. As I pointed out earlier, Ventura has used Ohman vs. RH hitters at a smaller or equal clip than any manager Ohman has ever had. He's at a 59.25% vs LH hitters this year. It would be a career high. Torre used him for the exact same percentage and number of hitters faced (54) in 2009. There are also things we do not know. There may have been relievers you think were available or should have been available, that were not. The bottom line is if Will Ohman can't get a RH hitter out, he shouldn't be in the major leagues. Do you think that comparing the percentage he has been used against LH in the first 36 games of 2012 against percentages he has been used during 162 games in other seasons might be flawed?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2012 -> 12:29 PM) So you know exactly how every guy in the bullpen was feeling yesterday, and who was available, and if he went to others how they would have shut the door. I'd rather they beat Detroit than the Angels, but if it could screw up the bullpen for mulitple games, sometimes you can't be afraid to lose. Nothing was guaranteed no matter who he put in. Just about everyone in the bullpen has been knocked around lately. I don't like Ohman on the roster, but it is what it is. I just don't understand playing the lack of experience card when you yourself have less. With that in mind, is anyone on this site qualified to criticize, well, anything? The line of reasoning that it takes experience to comment on experience invalidates virtually all conversation here. I have no experience hitting a baseball at a major league level. I have no experience fielding a ball at the major league level. I have no experience broadcasting on a major cable network. I have no experience umpiring a game. Ventura has no experience managing and had made some seemingly big errors thus far that might be due to a lack of experience. It would seem appropriate to discuss that. Using Ohman against righties, at all, when others seemed available seems to be a glaring one. Does it seem that way to you, or not? Perhaps now we could get to the actual discussion?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) Yet, as far as anyone can tell, you've never been a coach or a manager in professional baseball and you seem to know exactly how to run the bullpen. I never said that, straw man, but I can definitely tell when a manager brutally mishandles a baseball game with an extremely dumb decision, and then makes an even dumber rationalization.

LH OBA against Ohman is .250, btw. I think it's worth pointing this out.

I had a big problem with Ventura saying after the game that "you don't try to win them all" (or whatever he said) Listen, first-year-manager-at-any-level, a division game against the presumptive best team where you have a lead at home - I'm sorry but that's one you are going to try to win if it means you have no one left in the pen for tomorrow. This underscores my entire problem with the philosophy this season from the general manager down. It makes zero sense to have Ventura learn on-the-job while we are doing this in-between semi-competing semi-retooling bulls***. Kenny has set him up to fail miserably in big-game situations like this because he has zero experience. On topic, f*** a bunch of Will Ohman.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 12, 2012 -> 03:43 AM) I like how Manto wasn't even sure he wanted to set the sights as high as .280 with Gordon in his most recent comments. Then again, I think everyone would be thrilled with .260-.280 and an OPS between 675-725 compared to where he's been the last 12-18 months. What the heck is "DA DA"? Designate for assignment Dick Allen, lol? Considering Gordon's power, .260-.280 seems like it would be in the neighborhood of an .800 OPS. Ill take anything north of .240/.700.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ May 9, 2012 -> 10:28 PM) I think everyone still wants to think this team is bad and cant say anything good about em. It was a nice win tonight. Some nights, this team can look competitive, even dominating. Other nights, this team can look totally lost. There's just very little consistency right now from series to series.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 8, 2012 -> 10:48 PM) Wow! Awesome post! I would like to know what you mean by "give them the tools". I believe they should have most of those tools before they are drafted. Thanks. "give them the tools" is an oversimplification, and I realize I mis-spoke a bit in the heat of the moment. Let me try to clarify. I believe with Morel and Viciedo, sending them down to work out a new swing in a no-pressure, no-microscope situation with the intent of recalling them (instead of letting them get blasted nightly on talk radio in a major market) might be a strategy worth considering. It remains to be seen whether that's the case with either. Probably by June they should have either turned it around or gone back down. With Beckham, he's about 10-12 career points and 5-10 homers per season away from being a viable player in terms of his career stats, which is a bit agonizing when you consider how bad he's been over the last 190 games. I don't know what more you really can do but drop him in and let him sink or swim for 2012, but certainly, you have to kitchen sink him this season SOMEHOW. I suppose that's what hitting coaches and extra BP are for. I just hope he realizes how crucial this season is. It's actually kind of funny how close some of his numbers are to Crede at a similar point in their careers. Crede was .255 through his first 1290 ABs with about 40 homers. It could go Crede or it could go Mike Caruso. Yes, they are different players, but you know what I mean. For some of our veterans, allowing Alex Rios to play RF, the position he flourished in Toronto (at times) with, instead of asking him to play CF, like we did last year, might be the difference, as has been stated. Putting Dunn in the field more often, instead of having him sit on the bench as DH and fixate on his batting average, especially when he's previously played his entire career in the NL, might have taken the pressure off. Certainly, it's worth considering.

I don't know that attendance is as correlated to wins as people say that it is. I haven't done the research yet, but hear me out. First of all, the first home game after Humber's perfecto and Paulie's 400th was also a rather frigid 39 degrees on a Thursday night. The s*** weather we are having this april-may might have a little something to do with why the numbers are so low, thus far. There are many naturally well-attended games at this ballpark, regardless of how the White Sox are doing. Typically, the Yankees and Cubs sell out their games at the Cell, and typically the Red Sox do too. We got a bad break in that we had poor weather for the Red Sox games - usually they are in August and usually they aren't competing with Bulls and Hawks playoff teams. People are in full baseball mode by then. Certain divisional rivalries also bring bigger walkup numbers, because there are TONS of f***ing Tribe, Tigers, Twins fans who transplanted to Chicago from their s***ty cities that they love to root for capriciously but not live in. When this team was possibly at its most recently irrelevant, the 1999 season, the team drew approximately 1.4 million fans, a 16k average. Pitifully low numbers, but that was when the last title was 70+ years ago and we had few things other than Frank that were bringing people out. It was also before the naming rights were sold and the Cell was still the eyesore that was Comiskey II, a ballpark I always felt the need to alternately either describe in terms of the food served or apologize for. A lot of things are different these days. I think the worst it would ever get would be maybe 21k average, considering the recent world series, the new features of the ballpark, interleague and other intangibles.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:18 PM) That has been the suggestion for many posters, on many, many occasions. Trade Konerko, don't resign Danks, etc. I suppose my point is that *I* wasn't suggesting a complete overhaul like that in my response.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you jettison absolutely everyone, though. That seems unrealistic and a bit unreasonable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) How many times has this been done successfully in a 3 year time period? I can't recall ever. Even the Rays was spread out over at least 6 seasons before finally catching fire in 2008. Well yeah, I was exaggerating somewhat. Now that I'm thinking about it, 4-5 years makes the most sense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:35 PM) Great great post, but you said two contradictory things. You say this team has an upside of actually making the playoffs, yet "we need to stop looking at wins and losses this season." If you think we can make the playoffs, then we should look at wins and losses cause making the playoffs is a big deal. I'm a little surprised you gave the Sox a chance at making the playoffs. Your whole post makes sense. i'd just think the conclusion would be no chance in hell of the playoffs with this blah team for the reasons you gave. Thanks for the kudos. I should clarify - this team has a chance to make the playoffs simply because of the Tigers' piss-poor start; it has nothing to do with this team being able to win 90 games or even 88 games. It could squeak in at 87 games. If they do make it, I cannot see them advancing. Well, maybe a 1 in 10 chance. Even so, I give them no chance at a world series and too many opportunities would be missed for making key in-season moves for the future.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:56 AM) Awesome post, and you also might want to add that 2008 saw career years from a lot of players also (Quentin, Floyd, Danks, Alexei at the very least). Thanks. Definitely forgot to mention 2008 - lightning in a bottle part 2.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 8, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) Elaborate? What "tools"? You're probably being half-sarcastic. Real talk, it might be time to totally take apart Morel's swing. Beckham appears to be coming around, to a certain extent. However, if either or both continue to tank, I don't see why sending them down and taking everything apart would be a bad thing.

I've been mostly quiet until now, because I've favored a wait and see attitude. When they were 10-6, I didn't quite believe they were that good or lucky. Similarly, during this 3-11 stretch, I certainly don't believe they're this bad or unlucky. At this point, I don't think they can compete as-is, at least not particularly effectively, beyond a lucky win of the division and a very early exit in the playoffs. Maybe that was good enough for me in 2000, but I'm certainly not interested in that now. This is an 79-90 win team, just like the last umpteen teams have been, outside of 2007 and 2005. Williams believes that putting yourself in a position to win 80 games and then getting some breaks is good enough. I guess so, if you are getting some off the chart WARs. It struck me last night how fundamentally unsound Williams' "retool" strategy has been, at the core. It has relied on static parts producing at predicted results, paired with high-variance acquisitions to produce at or near the top of their game. It's a brutally flawed strategy, because it undermines some of the fundamentals of player development. In layman's terms, a lot of dudes in baseball just don't particularly pan out, which is why your Gordon Beckhams, your Brent Morels, your Dayan Viciedos are paired with a s***load of other prospects and brought along in tandem. This is why you bottom out at 95-100 wins for a couple of seasons. You trade talent away, hoard draft picks. and 3 years down the line you know who the the 2-3 diamonds are out of the 20 pieces of coal you throw in your pan. They are still cheap, so you can go out and spend money to get the FA you need to pair with your developed talent. You break the bank for two seasons and put together your attack run. You have a 2 year window, then you break it all down again. Why is this so hard for Kenny to realize? 2006-2012 was a series of moves designed to work IF everything fell into place. It's a bulls*** strategy, because it was based on the results of a lucky season. If Williams were a poker player, he'd play A2 suited because THAT was the hand that won him the $2000 tournament, not because it was a sound play to begin with, all things considered. Do I think it was a brilliant season? Yes. Do I commend Williams for his strategy? To a point, yes. We also got no less than 8 career years in 2005, and the playoffs of a lifetime - that still could have brutally swung the other way in the ALCS. Luckily, it didn't. Unluckily, Williams believed his own hype - that he could get career years out of "his guys" like getting water from a well. Ladies and Gents, I give you exhibit A - Scott Linebrink. We need to evaluate Brent Morel and Gordon Beckham and either cast them off as dead weight or give them the tools they need to succeed. We need to understand who Dayan Viciedo and Alejandro De Aza are, and give them the tools they need to succeed or continue to succeed at the major league level. We need to stop f***ing with Chris Sale. We need to fix John Danks. We need to trade everyone who resembles a closer and probably Jake Peavy. Most importantly, we need to stop looking at wins and losses this season, because it is the cancer that prevents us from any sustained long term success. It's one thing to act like the Yankees and go "all in" every year, it's another to half-ass your way to being "competitive" with a lackluster bottom half of the lineup.

Here is the single most important reason why farmer is not a good radio broadcaster- I cannot get a score to save my life within 10 minutes of flipping on the radio, at times.