NorthSideSox72

QUOTE(False Alarm @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) from will carroll at 1 pm ET: Big move? Seems to fit in with what was discussed in PHT, which people were assuming is the Cubs. This indicates it might be the Sox. Kind of interesting that it seems like a Chicago v Chicago bidding war now, perhaps.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 05:04 PM) getting rid of Kenny Williams, and when will be a better time than now? At minimum, we have no shot at going to the playoffs for 2 years, perhaps 3 or 4 is more accurate, and things need to be blown up. The biggest problem with this is you can't "blow it up" without having assets to trade, and we have very little that anybody would want. Regardless of what we do, it's clear this team will be a 4th place team for the forseeable future, and I just wish we'd get a GM who will do something other than whine about the free agent market and give players in their 30's who have shown they are washed up contracts extensions. Can we please just hire an adequate GM Jerry Reinsdorf?? Thanks for the laughs. No shot, in early December. 3 or 4 years. Ha! Like we even know yet what this team will look like on Opening Day THIS year.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:07 PM) Well to be fair, the US tried really hard to push the UN to do something much earlier... Countries like France thought it more prudent to argue over the definition of "genocide" instead of actually doing something about the problem. I wasn't so much talking about hindsight with regard to Sudan. I can't say I was out there yelling about Darfur in 2001 or anything. I was pointing out more the fact that the poor decision-making that led to the Iraq War cost us a lot more than just the war itself - it handcuffed us from being able to do other things that could have been really good for us, and for the rest of the world.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) can't we just nuke Sudan? Please? The irony with Sudan is... if we had put the money and effort of the Iraq war into doing something about Darfur, in yet another Islamic state... we could have actually been dramatically improving our standing with not only a billion Muslims but most of the rest of the world. Instead, we spent way more money, are less secure, more hated, and out 5,000 US soldiers and a few hundred thousand civilians.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) Of course it's a factor. I don't know how you could possibly say that. It was a factor in June -- if it wasn't a factor, we'd have Rick Porcello right now instead of Aaron Poreda. If it wasn't a factor, we'd be talking more about Andruw Jones. It's without a doubt a huge factor. They're cheap in their international signings, too -- what's the biggest bonus we've given to an international signing from Latin America? 500K? For a team that cries poor in the free agent market, the best -- and speaking long-term, most inexpensive yet effective -- way of getting talent is through the draft and through the signings in Latin America. The Sox don't spend on the draft and even worse, they refuse to take advantage of the 'loophole' of getting more picks by offering arbitration to players (see: Riske, David and I'd guess in the next couple months Cabrera, Orlando, as all signs point to the Sox trying to re-up with yet ANOTHER mid-30s player rather than take the two picks that would come from his departure). You sure do like to take everything to the extreme, don't you? Not everyone believes its either a non-factor, or a major factor. Read what I posted. It says "Of all the issues the Sox have, dealing with Boras is just not high on the list". KW was the one who said he wasn't a factor, not me. How is that not clear? QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) Did you read what I said? I said in AA and AAA, the Sox are completely bereft of position player talent. And that's true. Who in AA or AAA projects to be a starter? Maybe Ryan Sweeney if he bounces back. Anyone else? I'm not seeing anyone there. Getz projects as a back-up infielder. And please, there's no need to bring up Donny Lucy -- he'll be lucky to cut it as a backup catcher. I read it, and disagreed. Again, you want everything to be an extreme. You want to say that AA and AAA are completely bereft - your words - of position player talent. That is of course not the case. Sweeney has a shot at being a starter, Getz and Bourgeois seem like competent future backups, Anderson may still be a starter, and as for Lucy, I think he's most likely backup material. Reality is not so black and white as you make it. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) What? I can't be reading this -- seriously? The Sox didn't get the best talent last June -- there's not a knowledgable scout on this earth who would tell you Porcello is less talented than Poreda. You're right in that I can't be sure that the best available talent at eight will be a Boras client, but I gaurantee you that if he is, we won't be taking that player. You are reading it, and I said it. Did I say anything whatsoever about last June? Because it appears you are convinced the Sox will just keeping making bad picks. Has it come to your attention that the entire staff of talent evaluation and development folks has been overhauled this offseason? Does that mean anything to you? QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) Sure it does. Linebrink improves the bullpen of a fourth place team significantly. And he has a no-trade clause -- something the Sox apparently like to hand out like candy nowadays -- so if he's solid for the first year-and-a-half, it'll be tougher to flip him for a similar haul that San Diego got. And it cost us a top 75 pick. Oh yeah, and there's that whole thing about his K-rate dropping each of the past couple seasons. Linebrink's K/9 rate with MIL in 2007 of 8.88 was the highest he's had in 4 years, and only .01 below his career high of 8.89. Look it up. And I specifically said, the Sox overpaid a bit - that includes the 4th year, and the NTC.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:47 PM) what the hell? You haven't met your doppelganger yet?

I don't remember what thread(s) it was discussed in about Jason Bay being headed for Cleveland, but... So, maybe still in the Sox' sights?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:11 PM) Ozzie's wife told Cabrera about it, after Ozzie called her and told her he was dealt. Everyone is saying what a pain in the ass the Marlins have been to deal with. This couldn't fall through, could it? Keep Cabrera out of the AL Central, unless he's with the White Sox. Maybe the best philosophy this offseason is just to consider all players still available until they show up at a press conference wearing their new team's jersey.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:40 PM) Close this thread....no thanks. QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:43 PM) What a pathetic fan base we are begging for Kenny Lofton. Why dont we just put Rock Raines at the lead off spot? Since some of you have decided to turn your unsubstantiated ire at the fan base now, let's just try to keep it cool, alright? Disagreeing is all good, but no need to be jerks towards other posters about it.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) What is there to contribute to this discussion, KW is getting played like dog. If he does a move that is decent, i will eat crow all offseason. Best start eating then, he's already made at least one good one (Quentin), and some of us would say two (Linebrink).

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:29 PM) KW you suck more than life itself. Thanks for contributing.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) Because they can get a great young package of cheap players rather than an aging first baseman with a big contract and an arthritic hip. And the Orioles need to rebuild, not pick up a first baseman but lose an ace and AT BEST move sideways. There is what is smart for them long term, and there is what they tend to do.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) Konerko helps the Orioles less than not at all. Of course, with their management, I wouldn't rule out them making a deal of that level of silliness. Why? Millard is no great shakes there. They seemed interested before too. Do they have some 1B prospect stud I am unaware of?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) Well, then on top of that, I really have trouble thinking of SP's that a team interested in Konerko would be willing to give up. Clearly we're not getting Kershaw for him, the Dodgers might consider moving Billingsly but he'd probably have his price inflated by their need for starting pitching, any of the young guys from the Angels are a bit of a risk and are either not yet ready or have struggled a lot recently (Adenhart/Santana), and beyond that, I have trouble thinking of a team in need of a 1b bat that has an obvious starting pitcher to give up. You don't think maybe the O's would like PK? They tried for him before. And Bedard is being shopped.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:01 PM) I think the problem for the White Sox in regards to their minor leagues is talent evaluation more than losing a couple of draft picks. I agree, and its good to see the organization making major overhauls of their talent and development staff this offseason.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) There continues to be fewer than zero starting pitchers on this FA market I'd actually be interested in seeing on the White Sox next year. Kyle Lohse at 3/$30, that'll save us! I didn't mean signing an SP. I mean trading for one, using PK more than likely.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) Fields is way too good of an athlete to put at 1B. Except that Crede is far better than Fields defensively at 3B. Best move for the team, if you keep both players AND Crede shows up at ST healthy, is to have your best defensive 3B at 3B, and move Fields to 1B.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) I wish we could wait 2 weeks before deciding who to try and sign. The Mitchell Report could play prominently with some of these free agents left. I must admit, I share your concern here about the report. I just keep hoping the Sox get lucky, and maybe CLE and DET don't. You never know, though. That all said, the Sox cannot afford to wait those 2 weeks. They need to get a CF and probably an SP right quick.

We don't need 4 threads covering the exact same topic. I've merged these 4 threads into here. This is now the KW commentary thread. Enjoy.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:43 AM) Who is saying ten years? All I know is... Someone last night actually said it was time to bring in Hahn right now, or else the Sox are screwed for 10 years. I joke not. Someone actually said that. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:43 AM) - We're a $100 million dollar payroll team that has a ways to go to leap into SECOND place in the division, much less first place. I agree 100% with you here. At best, I think the Sox could MAYBE get up to sort of near 2nd place in terms of talent, if they do well with CF and add a solid starter. You'll note that I said, specifically, that there is plenty to be upset about. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:43 AM) - We're certainly the cheapest $100 million dollar payroll team. We cut out a great portion of available talent (through the draft, through free agency) only because of Scott Boras. I have no idea what the bolded above could possibly mean. You lost me there. As for Boras, KW specifically said that isn't a factor, and from what I've seen, he just puts Hahn out there to deal with him. Of all the issues the Sox have, dealing with Boras is just not high on the list. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:43 AM) - We have no young position-player talent in AA or AAA. None. We're completely bereft (Godspeed, Ryan Sweeney...). This doesn't look to get a whole lot better when (a) the Sox won't get the BEST AVAILABLE TALENT at eight overall as that player has a pretty good chance of being a Boras client and ( b ) the Sox feel the need to piss away more draft picks through crap-ass signings like Linebrink and maybe even Rowand. I certainly wouldn't argue that the Sox farm system isn't nearly bereft of position player talent. Completely is of course an overstatement. Every system has a few guys who could be solid players. And that thin talent pool, by the way, is MY biggest criticism of KW. Since becoming GM in 2000 (after, by the way, being director of player DEVELOPMENT), he and his designates have allowed the system to downright crumble. Fortunately, its clear the last few months he's making major changes in that way. A little late, but better than never. I don't agree the Sox won't get the best talent. There is just no way that statement makes sense - we don't even know what players will be available. Linebrink improves the bullpen significantly. They probably overpaid a bit. That does not make it a crap-ass signing. Rowand? We'll see.

QUOTE(buckweaver @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:31 AM) Thanks for posting this. For being two years removed from a World Championship, the overall tone on this site is so anti-organization it makes it hard to read. Perhaps it's simply all the negativity that comes out when people write, but you'd think by regularly reading Soxtalk that everyone in the Sox organization (especially Kenny Williams) is a numbnut and that a team of Joes from Bridgeport could certainly do a heck of a lot better job. The reality is that Kenny Williams is a smart guy and is willing to take a risk and Jerry Reinsdorf is a terrific owner who will spend wisely. I'd choose Kenny over most other general managers/Jerry over most other owners and give him the benefit of the duubt more often than most people on this site. It's absolutely everyone's right to post whatever they wish, but I question a lot of the venom, particularly when couched in terms of "What the hell...these guys don't know squat..." kind of writing. While Soxtalk is usually first with breaking Sox news, it's generally depressing to read because of the abundance of Chickens Little posting around here. There is plenty to be upset about. But, I agree with your overall point. Some of this THE TEAM IS SCREWED FOR 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! crap is pretty laughable. I just hope you don't get run down by the runaway panic-and-doom train because of your post.

QUOTE(juddling @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him. Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal. Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had. OK Soxtalk....discuss What other prospects? Assuming the 4 players were Fields, Danks, Gio and another prospect, who are the other two? Let's say the total package would have been Fields, Danks, Gio, Egbert, Sweeney and DLS. For one, that still doesn't beat Detroit's deal, and its about the best they could do. Second, what the heck do you do with the pitching staff now? And third, the farm system that had only a few decent prospect now has literally NONE. Cowley is reliable only in being unreliable with his information. The Sox offers just couldn't beat Detroit's.

QUOTE(G&T @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:17 AM) According to Cowley, the Sox would have had Cabrera if they would have given a couple extra prospects to get Willis too. The Sox wouldn't do it. Cowley's one of the least reliable in a field of unreliable sports writers in Chicago when it comes to predicting moves or getting "inside" information. I wouldn't put anything into that. Besides, looking at what Detroit gave up, I can't see how the Sox could beat that deal with what they have (unless they literally stripped bare their pitching prospects and half the 2008 staff).

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Well I am so glad that the franchise decided to play the likes of Pods and Erstad trying to win meaningless games in September that killed our draft. The minute september 1st showed up, they should of told every vet hey we are going to see what we have. 3 less wins and we are right in the middle of the Alvarez sweepstakes. We should be attempting to gain as many draft picks as possible. This is how good teams like the Redsox and the Yanks have rebuilt their system. They never went through that bad period like the Tigers that allowed for the low draft picks. They made some good decisions, and amassed draft picks. The currency today is prospects. We need a complete replenishing over the next 3 years to have enough chips to compete. I do have to agree, I don't get why they kept trotting Erstad and Pods out there in September. They weren't going to be traded, they were almost certain to be released after the season, and they lost the chance to take a closer look at some younger guys. They should have shut Hall down too, and maybe even a starting pitcher or two. I don't believe in playing to lose, but I think playing to evaluate future talent and let the wins and losses fall as they may would have been a good way to go.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:07 AM) Multiple places have said the Cubs topped San Diego's offer -- Fukudome is going to be a Cub. Just like multiple places have put the White Sox and Royals as hot on his tail too. Pick your poison. No one really knows what is going on for sure - its all rumors. Fun to talk about, but nothing to hang your hat on.