SoxFan1

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) Upton is a third-year player, so his situation isn't comparable to Beckham's. Bruce hit high in the Reds' order because the Reds have no talent in their lineup and a clueless manager. Rasmus is a solid comparison, but has played all of this season in the bigs. Beckham has been in Chicago for barely a month and a half. I'm not saying that young players shouldn't hit high in the lineup in their rookie year. I'm saying that if you go that route with a ridiculously-talented first-round pick, you'd damn well better be sure that he can handle it. I'd rather that Ozzie not take that chance this year. Especially with Alexei filling that role reasonably well right now. The Reds have no talent? Are you not aware of Brandon Phillips and Joey Votto and Chris Dickerson? They also had Dunn last season.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:12 PM) Keeping Beckham at the bottom of the order and taking pressure off of him (when he must be here out of sheer necessity) is part of that development process. Beckham's only 22. How many 22-year-olds are in the bigs? How many of them hit at the top of the lineup? Justin Upton is 21 and hits 3rd for the Diamondbacks. Jay Bruce was 21 last year and hitting towards the top of the Reds order. Colby Rasmus is 22 and hits 2nd for the Cardinals.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:08 PM) Edited for accuracy Yeah, because he has more 2B and his slugging percentage is higher, he's clearly our best power hitter. The fact that he's been a clean-up hitter his entire career means nothing.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:09 PM) It's nice to see that you can control your emotions and have an intelligent discussion. How can I have an intelligent conversation with some who is not intelligent in regards to the topic at hand? "Explain that one."

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:07 PM) You've been playing too much fantasy sports and too many video games. His track record as a manager disagrees with that. So does his development of Jenks, Danks, Floyd, and now Beckham. 1st of all, don't talk to me like I'm a f***ing moron. I don't give a s*** about fantasy sports or MLB video games. 2nd, developing pitches and hitters is WAY different.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:05 PM) That sounds about right. That's EXACTLY what I've been arguing this entire time. Who has more bat control than anyone on our roster? Beckham. Who has been our best, most well-rounded hitter? Dye. Who has the most power on our team? Thome.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) Your 2 hole hitter is usually your best handler of the bat. Best contact ratio, best ability to hit to all fields Because your 3 hole hitter is usually your best hitter. Your Cleanup guy is your best power guy. No, that doesn't make any sense at all.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) This back and forth exchange is providing plenty of laughs. Thanks. By laughs i meant head shakes. Please tell me I'm not the retarded one.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) No, I defer to people who actually know what they're doing, like Ozzie. Oh sorry, I didn't know you worked for the f***ing organization. Get it through your f***ing skull. He's not protecting Beckham from anything.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:59 PM) And that "old-school motherf***er" actually knows how to handle and develop young players. Unlike Soxtalk posters. Ya, I'm done trying argue with you. You clearly know more about making a lineup than anyone in the universe. Why don't we just bat Thome lead-off then? He has a .400 OBP!!!!!!!!!!1one

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:56 PM) Thanks for making my point. Now tell us why he's hitting 4th in the lineup with a .400 OBP? BECAUSE HE HAS MORE POWER THAN ANYONE IN OUR LINEUP!

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) And why do you suppose that is? Beckham's been tearing it up for over a month now. Why would Ozzie still have Beckham buried at the bottom of the lineup at this point? You don't understand. Ozzie isn't keeping him down in the lineup because he's a rookie and he wants to protect him. He's keeping him down in the lineup because he's a rookie and Ozzie is an old-school motherf***er.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:52 PM) Funny, our #4 hitter has a higher OBP than our #3. Explain that one. OBP is not equally important for the #1, #2, and #3 hitters. It's paramount for the #1, but the ability to hit for power becomes a lot more important after that. Are you serious? Our #4 hitter is Jim Freaking Thome and has arguably the best plate discipline of anyone currently in Major League Baseball. He's also like 11th all-time in BB.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) Why do you suppose that Ozzie has kept him at the bottom of the lineup this long? Because it's Ozzie Guillen and Gordon Beckham is a rookie. That's EXACTLY why he has kept him this low this long. And also because Alexei hasn't exactly been terrible in the 2 spot.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:47 PM) OBP is a lot more important for a leadoff hitter than a #2. I'd rather have AJ's lower OBP and power than a contact hitter like Pods in the #2 spot. OBP is important for your top 3 hitters. There's a reason the 4th hitter is called the clean-up man. This isn't the NL. You aren't playing for 1 run. And what does Pods hitting 2nd have to do with anything?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) That's debatable. I haven't seen any evidence or Utley- or Soriano-like power. You guys are expecting a heck of a lot from a 22-year-old rookie. I like to see him in the two-hole eventually, but making the kid learn a new position AND throwing him into the top of the lineup is a bit much, IMO. Do you really think it bothers him? Do you watch his body language or the way he plays? He has the most confidence I've ever seen for a young guy on the Sox and he hasn't done anything but be awesome for us. As far as his power, well, he's 22 and he's a line-drive hitter. And now some of those line-drives are leaving the yard. He has insane potential.

LOL, everyone is stealing on us because of AJ's arm. Apparently no one understands it's impossible to throw a runner out when they get an 8 step jump by the time AJ gets the ball.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:35 PM) You're correct that A.J. doesn't take nearly as many pitches as a #2 hitter should. That said, the fact that he's hitting .300 (with a respectable .330 OBP) makes up for it. Beckham has already had to learn one new position this year, and is hitting .290 with some power down at the bottom of the lineup. I agree that he's EVENTUALLY probably going to hit in the two-hole, but why screw with him when he's finally producing offensively? Let the kid develop. Remember that he went something like 0-13 when he was first brought up. We don't want a repeat of that. A .330 OBP is not very good for a 2-hitter. AJ doesn't draw very many walks at all. Beckham has drawn 18 BB in 46 games and AJ has 13 BB in 83 games. Beckham's OBP is .42 points higher than AJ's. And if I'm not mistaken, Beckham hit 2nd all year in AA and AAA.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) Sox heading in the youth movement. Kenny couldn't have gotten anything better than this? A AA prospect? Anything? Kotsay is 33? How is this a youth movement deal?

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:28 PM) Kotsay about five years past his prime. this is about as meaningful as trading for Griffey last season. Surely Kenny Kool can pick up a better piece than this. Ha, this is nothing for KW. They were tired of Anderson, he asked for a trade, they got rid of him. This isn't his deadline move.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) Beckham would be forced to change his approach at the plate if he were moved up to 2nd (taking more pitches, fouling off more balls). I'd rather keep him in the bottom third of the lineup for now. What!?!? He wouldn't have to change A THING. He's PERFECT for the 2 hole right now. He's been seeing tons of pitches and hitting the ball with authority anyway. You don't have to hit foul balls to be a good 2 hitter. AJ certainly doesn't see many pitches.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) Was Kotsay in the big leagues for the Red Sox? So we'll need to clear a 25 man spot for him? He was DFA to make room for LaRoche.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:17 PM) Kotsay will replace Fields as he can play first and the OF. He also would lead-off if Podsednik gets hurt or needs a day off which will probably happen soon as he has not had one. Wise started 2 in a row for Pods in Detroit after the Perfecto...

QUOTE (wilmot825 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) BA forever!!! That catch in the Blackout game will live on forever I'll always remember him for 3 things: His celebration of Pods' walk-off in Game 2 of the WS. His dominance of Felix Hernandez in Seattle. His catch in 163.

Either we just dumped him or Kotsay is our new 4th OF, but that's doubtful. Basically or trash for theirs. I wish BA the best of luck. I wish he would have panned out.