[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

I think people (including myself) are irritated because we fully expect them to have to upgrade at a higher price in a few months when they realize they made a mistake by not doing it this offseason.

 

That could be true with certain platers, but it's not a fact. Also, there will probably be more players available at the deadline due to certain teams not being in contention, certain players exceeding or not meeting expectations, certain players proving they deserve more playing time.

[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

Yeah, which is why I'm surprised you were advocating Upton/Gordon/Cespedes earlier in the thread. By far the most obvious move imo, is Austin Jackson.

 

I'd be happy with them signing Jackson, but I also believe there is a reason they haven't yet. I'd prefer a lefty if possible, and the FO has stated them same.

[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

When you're a .500 team in a division full of .500 teams, upgrading a -1.0 WAR to something like 2.0 WAR is exactly the type of move that takes a team to the next level.

 

Hahn is going to find an OFer to take at bats away from Avi. I don't think it will be a -1 WAR position in 2016. If the Sox don't upgrade the position before the season starts then I fully expect them to at the trade deadline if we are in contention for a playoff spot. Everyone is just mad bc it hasn't happened yet.

[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

Don't get mad at me that it took them less than 4 years to build a powerhouse. 97 wins is their floor. Wouldn't be surprised if they won 100-105 games.

 

Yeah I gotta say 97 wins as a floor is not realistic. If things go horribly wrong, like they do sometimes (injuries, underperforming, etc), then they could definitely win less than 97 games.

[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

That's like leaving $20 on the ground because you already found $20 earlier. The fact that's it's difficult to make multiple huge improvements doesn't mean the Sox should feel content letting opportunities pass by -- the RF market presented the easiest path to improvement for this team BY FAR. It was the softest free agent market for position players in probably ten years, there were twice as many high-end corner OF options available than at any other position, and there were remarkably few teams interested in buying. Price were lower than literally anyone predicted. They were so low that teams that didn't even have openings in the OF were acquiring talent simply because the value was impossible to pass up.

 

The Frazier trade was awesome! Great job! Why skip the easy follow-up? Why not complete the picture?

 

 

 

Again, if the glut of OF talent were all pulling in $150m contracts or costing multiple top prospects to acquire, I'd have no issue with the lack of movement. I believe wholeheartedly that Hahn has wisely avoided overpaying for stuff he wants -- but that's NOT what happened here. Upgrading in RF would not be "making a stupid move because of fan pressure," it would be upgrading on a career sub-replacement black hole when the universe flopped a boon of all the necessary talent right in front of you at discount prices.

 

I get what you're saying -- all the moves Hahn DID make were great. I liked them all individually. But ultimate success in the MLB is a binary thing. Please excuse the following mess of mixed sports metaphors, but ignoring the lay-up of making a massive, relatively cheap upgrade in RF feels like running the ball to the 2-yard line and taking a knee.

 

Gordon wasn't going anywhere except staying with KC, Upton wanted nothing to do with the South Side, and the Cespedes situation was a mess. When it comes down to it, he got what he wanted from the Mets and that's why he stayed there. The fact that you think it would be easy to get any of these 3 is laughable. It would have been an overpay if we somehow acquired any of them.

 

You are also not understanding my stance. I'm saying I fully expect them to sign an OFer still, but it will be when either the player accepts they won't get the offer they want, or if it is via trade it will be when that team is willing to pull the trigger. If it's the Dodgers or Rays it looks like they will eventually have to make a move from their crowded outfields.

 

There hasn't been a layup massive upgrade out there that the Sox have passed on. They are obviously trying to improve the position and haven't found anything they liked enough to pull the trigger.

 

The people that piss and moan that we haven't signed Jackson or Fowler yet, and think it's a failure simply because we haven't is a joke. Are they improvements? Yes. Do they take this team to the next level? No.

[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

Yeah I can't give them credit for something that hasn't been done. The offseason DOES look good from the 10,000 foot view of a national writer, who is primarily looking at a list of transactions. But in the context of the roster and the market that existed, the lack of a high-end OF addition is major flop, and one that could cost a couple highly valuable wins given where we're likely to be on the curve.

 

I'll be much happier if we add a Fowler/Jackson type at a reasonable price, but I still think that this was absolutely the year to offer the first big-boy free agent contract in team history (well, excluding Albert Belle) and get a juicy 4WAR upgrade in RF.

 

I simply disagree with you. How many teams have multiple 3-4 WAR upgrades in one offseason? We already have it with Frazier and have noticeable upgrades at 2 other positions. I don't think it's a major flop, as you said, that we didn't also add a 3-4 WAR OFer. I'll be shocked if the sox don't add another OFer, but they are going to do it their way, which means going through every option and make the best decision instead of making a stupid move because they feel pressure from fans that don't think they did enough this offseason.

[Dave Cameron - Grading the Offseason]

I'm not going to lie, I have grown tired of hearing everyone on this board b*tch about how this offseason has been such a failure. I feel like I'm one of the only people here that is pleased with the moves that have been made. Well, apparently Dave Cameron at Fangraphs thinks quite highly of the Sox offseason as well.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/grading-the...r-all-30-teams/

 

"4. Chicago White Sox

Grade: B+

 

Last year, the White Sox tried to push in on contention a bit early, and ended up with a disappointing roster. This year’s moves to solidify the depth of the organization seem to have gone a bit better, with the Todd Frazier trade in particular representing a big upgrade at a minimal price. While they’re certainly betting against the importance of team chemistry by bringing in both Brett Lawrie and Mat Latos — the acquisition prices there reflect the poor reputations those guys have around the league — the White Sox managed to solidify some very weak spots from last year, and while I’m still not sure they’re quite good enough to win their division, they’ve at least put themselves in striking distance.

 

The Frazier trade alone was enough to call this a good winter, and if Lawrie or Latos live up to the potential suggested by their talent, the risks they took could pay off in a significant way."

[Hahn press conference notes]

The problem is Hahn did the complete opposite of that with LaRoche, Cabrera, Duke, Robertson and Bonifacio (overpaying)...so now it feels like they're way overcorrecting in the other direction and becoming timid. (Not going to waste time arguing the Samardzija deal again.)

 

In order to compete when there's so much parity, you need to be excellent in 2-3 areas, like pitching, speed, defense, bullpen, line-up balance, fundamentals, manager/coaches maximizing talent, etc.

 

As it stands right now, our only real advantage is starting pitching and the bullpen. That and the historical record of staying healthier, which doesn't feel like it can hold up indefinitely. It's probably reasonable to argue this is about the best they could have done without the budget constraints. On the other hand, Hahn made a series of mostly terrible moves last offseason, so he's at least partially to blame for the financial predicament.

 

The sad thing here is the boos will undoubtedly go to Avi and Ventura and not Hahn if it blows up again.

 

In response to the first paragraph, all of those moves were applauded when they happened. The sox won the offseason. I somewhat agree they are over compensating for their mistakes, but I also think they learned a lesson that most teams don't build a winner by building through FA. I think they are doing the best they can to put a very competitive team on the field while trying to build from within. That is why they wouldn't part with Fulmer or Anderson or the 3 top 50 picks.

[Hahn press conference notes]

I usually agree with the general consensus on this board, but apparently I'm in the minority that I'm overall happy with the off season. Would I like and upgrade at RF and/or SS? Of course that would be nice, but we have upgraded pretty massively at 2B, 3B, and C. Not to mention signing Latos for next to nothing and adding more depth to the bullpen. How much more can you realistically expect to happen in 1 off season? I personally love that Hahn is being smart and not giving in to the player demands. There are so many FA's still out there that I'm sure would like to be playing this season and earning a contract. There is no reason to give in to their demands and pay them what they want.

 

I'm fine with running Saladino out there for 1 season. We have Anderson waiting in the wings and we will have him hopefully at SS for league minimum for years. When it comes to RF, I think it'd be dumb to give Fowler a 4 year deal or close to a $50 million dollar contract, while giving up the 28th overall pick in the draft at the same time. When it comes down to it, I'm not an Avi supporter, but I understand giving him 1 more season to see if he can put it together like the Sox thought he could when they acquired him.

 

I think the way to build a winner is to find the bargains in FA and build from within. I do see that plan in place at the moment. Before anyone says it, I realize we have traded many prospects in our top 25 from last season, but let's be honest, who are we really going to miss? Montas maybe if he ever stays healthy. Other than that I'd be surprised if they amount to much in the majors.

[Keith Law's Top 100; Tim Anderson at #45]

Anderson may need a year, but unless Saladino lights the world on fire he has until about June.

 

No one is expecting Saladino to light the world on fire. We will either sign Desmond or they have to accept what Saladino has to offer until Anderson is ready.

[Orioles DO NOT Sign Fowler]

How did catcher get worse or even stay the same? Catcher is very much improved.

 

I was going to say they same. Catcher seems like an obvious improvement.

[2016 is the 25th anniversary of "New Comiskey Park" or USCF]

I usually defend the Cell but the only park built around the same time that it can beat is Comerica. I cannot stand Comerica's sight lines. The Cell is just about as "cookie cutter" of a design as you can use for a ballpark.

 

It reminds me some of Safeco except that Safeco pretty much did everything better including a removable roof, less steep upper deck, and city views from the upper concourses. If you're gonna do "cookie cutter" design, Safeco is how you do it.

 

I woudn't say new Comiskey and Comerica were built around the same time. New Comiskey was '91 and Comerica was 2000. Safeco was built in '99. There were 6 stadiums built between new Comiskey and Safeco, and 8 built between new Comiskey and Comerica.

 

Like others have noted, improvements were made for stadiums built after new Comiskey based on the mistakes that were made.

[Rockies Trade Dickerson to Rays]

Not much given up for Dickerson. Wish that would have been the Sox getting him.

[2015-2016 NFL Thread]

Alex Smith?

 

Yeah he does have slightly better stats than Cutler.

[2015-2016 NFL Thread]

So who's the next QB in line to go to the Pro Bowl? Palmer is now out because of his finger...Does Cutler have a chance at his spot?

[Vacation/Travel Thread.]

Mama's Fish House. My favorite meal on our 2 week trip to the islands.

 

I heard great things about Mama's Fish House, but we stayed on the northwest part of the island and the restaurant is in the middle of the island not near anything we were doing. We thought about going there on our way to the airport when we were leaving, just didn't end up happening.

[Vacation/Travel Thread.]

Just came back from 5 days in Denver. Dammit do I love that city. In one afternoon, I drove up to and around Lookout Mountain for incredible scenery, saw the Buffalo Bill museum and grave, went to Red Rocks and walked around, did the Coors Brewery tour and also checked out Mile High Stadium.

 

The drive south to Colorado Springs/Pueblo is also really gorgeous.

 

Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Did you happen to hike at all when you checked out Lookout Mountain? That's one of my favorite trails near the city, mainly for the views. Did you spend any time in Golden?

 

You left out the details of all the craft breweries that you visited!

[Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets]

I think it's extremely likely that we don't end up getting him, but my bet is that they are giving it their best shot.

[Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets]

If we truly are not in on Cespedes then why would everything be so quiet when it comes to the White Sox front office and the reporters not knowing anything? I just don't believe it.

["Blind" Road Trip]

I could make it to Homer Glen where I live and Coloma Michigan.

 

Curious why you would know Coloma, MI. Do you have a place on Paw Paw Lake?

[2015-2016 NFL Thread]

I bet the Jags end up in London. They already play one game a year there and Khan also owns a Premier League team in London as well.

 

Kroenke is the majority share holder for Arsenal and he wasn't trying to move the Rams to London...

[Brandon Phillips NOT traded to Nationals]

Has a NTC and it's the sticking point for getting this deal done. 27 million owed to him the next 2 years.

 

I have heard that he loved playing for Dusty Baker. I don't see why he wouldn't want to go play for him on a contender with the Nationals rather than staying on a rebuilding Reds team.

[Alexei, Saladino, or another plan for SS]

Would rather not spend the extra money on Alexi because I don't think he will have a much better season that Saladino. Use the money elsewhere and let Saladino develop.

[Sox Acquire All-Star 3B Todd Frazier from Reds in 3 team deal]

This takes the CarGo deal away which is fine. It's Upton or Cespedes now. Really love the deal from our side.

 

I disagree with this statement. You think that's the case because we traded Montas and you think that's the only pitcher in our system that they would want? I'm not saying we will trade for CarGo, but this deal doesn't prevent that from happening.

[Todd Frazier Available]

Rosenthal's latest blurb:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/price-h...osenthal-121515

 

"WHY WHITE SOX MIGHT BALK AT FRAZIER

 

Frazier certainly is a fit at third base and in the middle of the lineup for the White Sox; newly acquired Brett Lawrie could move to second, giving the Sox upgrades at two positions.

 

The problem is, the Reds want significant prospects for two years of Frazier, and the White Sox's system remains relatively thin. Better the team should explore the open market -- if it can find the right solution.

 

A free agent such as second baseman Howie Kendrick would cost the Sox a second-round draft pick; their first-round pick, No. 10 overall, is protected. But Kendrick also has turned down $15.8 million from the Dodgers, and at 32 soon could enter his decline phase.

 

Third baseman David Freese might make more sense -- he probably would be more affordable than Kendrick and the Angels did not make him a qualifying offer, removing the additional cost of a pick."