WCSox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) Or maybe they don't want to double the pressure by making him hit #2 AND adding a new position to his resume? Bingo

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:17 PM) Justin Upton is 21 and hits 3rd for the Diamondbacks. Jay Bruce was 21 last year and hitting towards the top of the Reds order. Colby Rasmus is 22 and hits 2nd for the Cardinals. Upton is a third-year player, so his situation isn't comparable to Beckham's. Bruce hit high in the Reds' order because the Reds have no talent in their lineup and a clueless manager. Rasmus is a solid comparison, but has played all of this season in the bigs. Beckham has been in Chicago for barely a month and a half. I'm not saying that young players shouldn't hit high in the lineup in their rookie year. I'm saying that if you go that route with a ridiculously-talented first-round pick, you'd damn well better be sure that he can handle it. I'd rather that Ozzie not take that chance this year. Especially with Alexei filling that role reasonably well right now.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:14 PM) I have to agree with whomever said Beckham doesn't look like a kid who feels a whole lot of pressure. I don't see how moving him to the 2-hole would affect him. I agree that Beckham certainly comes off as more mature than his age. Maybe that's the case (as it was with Jeter). But if it's not, you run the risk of stunting Beckham's development. Do you want to take that chance on the best infield prospect you've had in 20 years? I don't. I'd hit him 8th or 9th this year, let him develop without the added pressure, and then put more responsibility on him next season.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:10 PM) How can I have an intelligent conversation with some who is not intelligent in regards to the topic at hand? "Explain that one." Nice veiled personal attack. Oh, and that's "with regard to."

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) But he didn't want Beckham even here. He pencils him into the lineup every day out of sheer necessity. I don't see how that is showing great developmental skills. Keeping Beckham at the bottom of the order and taking pressure off of him (when he must be here out of sheer necessity) is part of that development process. Beckham's only 22. How many 22-year-olds are in the bigs? How many of them hit at the top of the lineup?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) 1st of all, don't talk to me like I'm a f***ing moron. I don't give a s*** about fantasy sports or video games. It's nice to see that you can control your emotions and have an intelligent discussion.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Who has the most power on our team? Thome Dye. Edited for accuracy

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:02 PM) Oh sorry, I didn't know you worked for the f***ing organization. Get it through your f***ing skull. He's not protecting Beckham from anything. You've been playing too much fantasy sports and too many video games. QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) Seriously considering DeWayne Wise a leadoff hitter insinuates that Ozzie doesn't have a great idea of what he is doing. His track record as a manager disagrees with that. So does his development of Garland, Jenks, Danks, Floyd, and now Beckham. Say what you want about his lineups (and I'll often agree with you), but Ozzie knows how to develop young players.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:02 PM) Your 2 hole hitter is usually your best handler of the bat. Best contact ratio, best ability to hit to all fields Because your 3 hole hitter is usually your best hitter. Your Cleanup guy is your best power guy. That sounds about right.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:01 PM) Ya, I'm done trying argue with you. You clearly know more about making a lineup than anyone in the universe. No, I defer to people who actually know what they're doing, like Ozzie.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:57 PM) BECAUSE HE HAS MORE POWER THAN ANYONE IN OUR LINEUP! Not this season. Dye is out-slugging him, yet Dye is hitting 3rd. Explain that one.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:55 PM) You don't understand. Ozzie isn't keeping him down in the lineup because he's a rookie and he wants to protect him. He's keeping him down in the lineup because he's a rookie and Ozzie is an old-school motherf***er. And that "old-school motherf***er" actually knows how to handle and develop young players. Unlike Soxtalk posters.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Are you serious? Our #4 hitter is Jim Freaking Thome and has arguably the best plate discipline of anyone currently in Major League Baseball. He's also like 11th all-time in BB. Thanks for making my point. Now tell us why he's hitting 4th in the lineup with a .400 OBP?

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Plus, Ramirez, in terms of experience is only a little bit older than Beckham... Huh? Alexei is a full 5 years older than Beckham. And didn't he play pro ball in Cuba?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:52 PM) Because it's Ozzie Guillen and Gordon Beckham is a rookie. That's EXACTLY why he has kept him this low this long. And why do you suppose that is? Beckham's been tearing it up for over a month now. Why would Ozzie still have Beckham buried at the bottom of the lineup at this point?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) OBP is important for your top 3 hitters. There's a reason the 4th hitter is called the clean-up man. Funny, our #4 hitter has a higher OBP than our #3. Explain that one. OBP is not equally important for the #1, #2, and #3 hitters. It's paramount for the #1, but the ability to hit for power becomes a lot more important after that.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) Do you really think it bothers him? Do you watch his body language or the way he plays? He has the most confidence I've ever seen for a young guy on the Sox and he hasn't done anything but be awesome for us. Why do you suppose that Ozzie has kept him at the bottom of the lineup this long?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:39 PM) A .330 OBP is not very good for a 2-hitter. AJ doesn't draw very many walks at all. Beckham has drawn 18 BB in 46 games and AJ has 13 BB in 83 games. Beckham's OBP is .42 points higher than AJ's. And if I'm not mistaken, Beckham hit 2nd all year in AA and AAA. OBP is a lot more important for a leadoff hitter than a #2. I'd rather have AJ's lower OBP and power than a higher-OBP contact hitter like Pods in the #2 spot. Lots of players hit high in the order in the minors, and then end up hitting 7th or 8th in the bigs in their rookie year because their managers want to protect them and let them develop.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) and should grow into a 3 hole hitter. That's debatable. I haven't seen any evidence or Utley- or Soriano-like power. You guys are expecting a heck of a lot from a 22-year-old rookie. I like to see him in the two-hole eventually, but making the kid learn a new position AND throwing him into the top of the lineup is a bit much, IMO.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:29 PM) What!?!? He wouldn't have to change A THING. He's PERFECT for the 2 hole right now. He's been seeing tons of pitches and hitting the ball with authority anyway. You don't have to hit foul balls to be a good 2 hitter. AJ certainly doesn't see many pitches. You're correct that A.J. doesn't take nearly as many pitches as a #2 hitter should. That said, the fact that he's hitting .300 (with a respectable .330 OBP) makes up for it. Beckham has already had to learn one new position this year, and is hitting .290 with some power down at the bottom of the lineup. I agree that he's EVENTUALLY probably going to hit in the two-hole, but why screw with him when he's finally producing offensively? Let the kid develop. Remember that he went something like 0-13 when he was first brought up. We don't want a repeat of that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:24 PM) Fields has plenty of options left According to Kalapse's chart, he only has one left. And I hope that Kenny doesn't choose to use it now.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) I know we don't want to throw too much at the rookie, but he seems much better suited to the 2-hole than Lexi, who has had a lot of trouble taking pitches at times. Beckham is more versatile and can draw the walk. beckham walks every 9 pas, ramirez every 13 pas. Honestly, I'd rather put A.J. in the two-hole. He's hitting well this year, and did pretty well hitting second last season. Beckham would be forced to change his approach at the plate if he were moved up to 2nd (taking more pitches, fouling off more balls). I'd rather keep him in the bottom third of the lineup for now.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:15 PM) Kotsay's not the same guy he was 2-3 years ago on defense. He was terrible on D this year in the outfield. Then he'll fit right in with the rest of our outfield! Seriously, though, that didn't stop Griffey from starting in CF last summer, or Pods playing there for the past month, or Mackowiak playing there three Augusts ago...

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:09 PM) Who goes down? Fields? Kotsay is pretty much a UTL IF at this point. Nix is out of options and Fields has one left. I don't see either of those guys moving. Kotsay most likely replaces Wise in CF. Thanks for the perfect game catch last week, Dewayne.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 08:29 AM) Didn't Ripken supposedly travel separately from the rest of the team, and even occasionally stayed in different hotels? I'm not sure he's the guy I'd use as an example. Ripken was much more of a jerk than the media let us know. I've heard second-hand stories about him treating young players like crap, and have read about him constantly undermining Davey Johnson's authority.