sox4lifeinPA

I just read an explanation that mirrored your thoughts, except for the sinful part (which is the second contradiction I've read tonight). I don't think I can really say much about this that won't be taken and manipulated into something else. Soxygirl said it hours ago... that's why we have different denominations. I don't believe I could be as effectively led by woman pastor, as I would with a male one. there I said it. I've heard many speakers both male and female, and both have effectively minister through their words, but honestly, I like the idea of a group of deacons/elders sharing the preaching load anyway.... male and female. it's late, goodnight.

is that what you and steve-o prefer? it's cool man, I don't judge

my pee>keystone cops naw, I've "encountered" some nice ones....some s*** ones too. here that white? :fyou

damnit, I'm aflame with passion I'm thinking las vegas wedding this summer. where's that "sex before marriage is bad" passage? I can't find it anywhere

cue "battle hymn of the republic" apparently I'm the slack jawed yokel that soxtalk always needed.... a funny movie quote "Men are the head of the house, but women are the neck..." in other words, I may make a lot of the decisions in my relationship with miss sox4l, that doesn't mean I haven't heard her 45 minute opinion on why or why not that decision shouldn't be made. so in agreeance, I suppose that women have different "authority" than men in the church, so clearly there might not be equality in that, but i never said that opinions and thoughts weren't heard on equal levels. now you're just looking to pick me apart, Jim.... if so, I must be doing something right then. I wish the rest of my life reflected that statement. And I think you're mistaken, soxy was saying that she's familiar with my "brand of Christianity " and I think she's the one searching for the denomination that fits her best (all of which I appluad and wish her the best, so please don't try to drive a wedge between our very civil conversation) that's a little ridiculous, but thanks. When did it become against human existence to live life in a traditional manner? man goes to work, wife stays at home, kids go to school, pets crap on the floor. why do people attack this as if THAT is what's killing America? That's a flagrant and narrow-minded attack on what she and I believe, if you want to talk about contradictions. with that being said, I hope that one day, Jim, you and I could sit down at Perkins or bennigans or whatever and have a nice meal and respect the sides we sit on. There's no reason to get mad about any of this. It's a bunch of hunches and guess anyway, right?

anonymous and homosexual sound awefully similar...I think you're mistaken DBAH0

he's the first and only, IIRC. he was part of the group that got dancing "ok'ed" on campus. shocking, really. obviously the passage goes on to show that he grants the request because of the great FAITH that she had shown in Jesus. However, the thing that sticks out to me doesn't have to do much the woman at all. Jesus waited for his disciples to try to get rid of her, but makes the point to show them that the kingdom of heaven most certainly does include women, and moreover that we can learn much about a woman's faith. I don't think that's "teaching" at all, but a lifestyle that should be exemplified. So You're totally right on the inclusing, just not about the teaching. with that being said: I wholeheartedly agree, and this is probably because the jewish traditions didn't respect women in the leadership much at all, if any. I think this passage is one of the most amazing passages in scriptures and yet it sickens me to watch the evangelical church produce mirror image divorce rates as the "secular" world. Paul's basically saying that "hey, it's best if men don't marry, but since there's so much smut and temptation out there, it's probably a good idea that you get your grove on with one lady, and women, with one man." (imagine what he'd think today....) "on second thought, it wouldnt matter either way, would it?" I love the part about a woman/man's body not belonging to her/himself. I know paul means in a physical way, but I think it reflects a sacrifice that occurs on the wedding day. you no longer can live for the satisfaction of yourself, but for the needs of the other person. I don't know. I'm friggin' ready to get married, that's why I'm zoned in on those passages. like I said, I think there's alot more room for women in the church today (clearly men cannot do it alone) but as far as the biblical church goes, I don't see much precidence for women being the head of any church. not saying they shouldn't (well at my church they shouldn't ) thanks for that soxy, anyone else in on this?

Thanks for not jumping on me about it Soxy. I honestly don't think God looks at any of us differently. infinite love is infinite love. we are but a dixie cup and God is niagra falls. do we have different roles in the church? I would think so. do we have different roles in a marriage? definitely. I can't and would never want to house a growing baby inside me. and miss sox4life doesn't want to be away from the house and family like I'd be when at work. However, we are both working towards masters degrees and love learning. I try not to use whole paragraphs of scripture because of length, but honestly, that's how they're intended to be read. "Wives and Husbands 1Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. 7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. " That's 1 peter, I'm sure that's nothing new to you, but I loved the message of womenhood being so much more subtle and infiltrating than the corseness of manhood. I don't know, I understand and appreciate your views, please find a church like that. Have you check out House of Mercy in St. Paul? that's where my bro goes from time to time. they're pretty inclusive (he's a treehugger too... )

While I'm not taking away from a woman's wisdom and intelligence, I do think that there's something "funny" about women pastors, ministers, preachers. Of course I'm the narrow-minded, ignorant one, so that makes sense to y'all. I know plenty of independent minded, free thinking women that would support that statement. "that's a sign of the patrioarchial culture, holding the women down" boo that. Men were created to lead (and screw up). Just because our culture changes (and its primarily a s*** culture if you haven't taken a look recently) doesn't invalidate what the gospel and new testament writers had to say. With that, I don't think we should silence women in the church, quite the opposite. I think women deserve to be heard equally, but ultimately are the support of male leadership. Furthermore, I completely agree that Christ's message was one of love. OT cultures, NT culture, and the cultures ever since all lack compassion, fairness, justice, and love towards fellow man. That's the state of sin we're locked in. However, to simple ignore the rest of the commandments and what Christ had to say about the way to enter (12 virgins, guests at the party, etc) Our love from each other stems from the faith and affirmation as Christ as the center. He is the pinnacle of Love, and through salvation and our baptism in the spirit, we are capable of godly love. All good works are from Him and nothing that we do. can't wait for the flack to fly.

actually I'll be making as much money as I would all summer in 5-6 weeks with this guy: Ross King so I have a job, mike... so kiss it. and DBAH0, it's a MUCH better job. plus I'm moving back to PA in july to be with you know who.

I'm quitting, I guess that's the difference. sorry to those who lose their jobs!

with apache helicopters and m-1 abrahms... it's a matter of time

F the credit union

rock on bruce!

or does Bruce Campbell rock?

don't you mean we're #2... israel is #1, right?

you live in socialist canadia, of course you wouldn't

what really bothers me is that all of these countries that bug us about Iraq, and I'm not saying that they necessarily don't have a right to, all have major issues of their own. France has huge immigrant prejudice problems, as do many western european nations. Russia just might want to take care of Checneya and the cancer known as "chernobyl", which is primed and ready to f-up the world, once again. Mexico laughs at us when the majority of it's income comes from money sent back from the US. Brazil needs to figure out that the rain forest is our friend. Spain has the Basque seperatists. and so on and so on. While the US interests in Iraq should be questioned, I hate the fact that other nations go unchecked and make us the focus of the worlds hate

by the way, how's the rain forest doing? is almost gone yet? phew...good, next week you say? great...right on schedule.

last time I checked, the iraqi insurgents were doing a pretty good job of blowing themselves the f*** up... they really don't need our help

um......... I'm lost

so making a joke about how many jewish jewelry store owners there are, isn't cool? just checking...

nothing, just saying...

actually, it would. I'm looking to learn and I respect what you have to say. help me understand the word, because maybe I'm looking at it incorrectly. at the very least, help me understand your position, as to further my own faith. I understand if you don't. thanks cdub. I appreciate your thoughts.

"blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" you're probably right, Jim. my issue is that I don't necessarily like Kerry, where as I would vote for Clinton...maybe. WILLIAM and NOOOOOOOOOOOT hillary...ew. anyway, peace and love are not apart of the Bush doctrine, so I believe that God might take away his position of power. regardless... Psalm 109:8 sums up my thougts on John Kerry becoming president "May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership. "