StrangeSox

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:24 AM) The credibility that everyone is heaping on him as a little kid trying frantically to get home with his Skittles and away from a psychopath against whom he'd have no ability to beat the piss out of. It's pretty clear that Martin did have the ability to beat the piss out of this guy, and was. If Zimmerman started the confrontation, then he deserved it and he is guilty of killing this kid.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:12 AM) We honestly have no idea what happened, but obviously it is beginning to appear as though Martin wasn't the helpless victim he was originally presumed to be. Why? He could have been into all sorts of trouble back in his home town, but none of that has any bearing whatsoever on this situation.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:15 AM) That changes the fact that Zimmerman's head was slammed into the ground? Ground =/= cement. Zimmerman's injuries are minor, not what you'd expect if someone was beating your head into the cement.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:15 AM) It sure takes away from his credibility. Guy currently on suspension for possession or neighborhood watch leader. Any other circumstances in the world, and everyone would be inclined to believe the latter. But the latter may or may not have also muttered a racial slur, so the druggie is now still 8-years-old and a foot shorter with no reasonable ability to knock a grown man down and slam his head into the ground. Credibility of what? Martin is claiming anything other than having a bullet wound in the chest that killed him.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:08 AM) Yes, but you are ignoring the bestest witness of them all, apparently Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him, and heard everything so clearly that she can tell you exactly what both people said leading all the way up to the confrontation. So now the technical forensic side of me kicks in and I ask what kind of phone did he have? The reason I ask is because modern Android phones and iPhones have automatic background noise cancellation built into them...so unless he had her on speakerphone the entire time, she didn't hear anything intelligible from anyone other than Martin. But let's not let technical facts get in the way of a good "over the phone" witness that has no reason to be biased or anything. Oh, and we all know how clear speaker phones are when used outdoors... Just yesterday I was speaking with someone on the phone and could easily hear both background noise (machinery running in the background) and people talking around him. We both have relatively new Android phones. His phone was not on speakerphone. Later, on another call, it was on speakerphone and outdoors and it was clear enough to speak with several people. There are no "technical facts" that are getting in the way here. If you're going to automatically discount her statements based on presumed bias, then you can't believe anything about Zimmerman's statements, either, and we're back to having zero information on what happened between Zimmerman hanging up with 911 and the witness seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:10 AM) Case closed. Treyvon likely went around randomly beating people up every day because he smoked pot. Pot heads are some of the most violent people on the planet!

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 08:03 AM) The police seem to believe it. The witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. But hey, let's continue to take the word of the two-bit pot head (probably drug dealer) over the witnesses, police findings, and neighborhood watch captain whose own black neighbors claim is not racist. Yeah, we already covered why those articles are a pretty terrible representation of what the witnesses have actually said. Since no one actually saw who started the incident, no witness is making a claim on who the aggressor was. The only one making those claims is Zimmerman.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 10:15 PM) Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and figure that Martin had no clue whatsoever that Zimmerman had a gun. If he was aware, I'm sure he wouldn't have allowed Zimmerman to get to it while he was on top of him and slamming his skull into the cement. he wasn't "slamming his skull into the cement" but keep up the top-notch commentary!

QUOTE (Tex @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 08:16 PM) They both had reason to believe they were in danger, yet neither one really gets out of the way. Martin was in no danger until he was stalked by the dude with a gun.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 07:59 PM) Absolutely...there is no evidence who was the initial aggressor...and that's kind of the problem. BUT, it seems highly unlikely that if Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, armed with a loaded gun, that he'd let a smaller, younger "kid" get him to the ground...kinda seems off to me. Sounds to me if Zimmerman was the trigger happy gun toting stalking aggressor the media painted him as being, he'd have just shot that kid before any of that happened. I would doubt he confronted him with his gun drawn. Imagine a "hey boy what you doin here" while grabbing his arm. Martin then punches him and a fight ensues. Martin has the upper hand until Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 07:51 PM) The only thing corroborated by witnesses was that Zimmerman was getting punched...the rest of what you wrote before that is pure speculation. Zimmerman attempted to follow him based on the 911 call, and lost him...I believe that's all part of the 911 recording, was it not? At that point, the only story we have is Zimmermans...as there is no other living witness for that time frame. The only witness that saw anything, if anything, makes it sound like Martin was the aggressor...as all he saw was Zimmerman yelling for help. Any/all other witnesses cannot confirm anything with any certainty other than they heard voices, and it's doubtful they know who's voices they heard in such a situation. The girl was on the phone with martin up until zimmerman confronted him. It is speculation what happened, but I've seen nothing to indicate an increasing likelihood that martin was the initial aggressor.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 07:29 PM) I thought you were a huge Obama guy? Or are you being sarcastic here sans green text? :/ Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else. Edit: And I thought everyone knew Zimmerman was Hispanic for a while now...?

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 07:39 PM) And not to defend Obama, but him speaking out on this and bringing attention to a poorly written law that exists in 20 states, seems prudent. The law is too vague for my liking...and it needs to be done away with, as does any law stating you have to retreat. The only thing Obama said I didn't care for is the crap about that's how his son would have looked or something...as if that has anything to do with anything...I didn't quite understand the need to say that. That aside, Obama did nothing wrong. Obama was asked, he didn't bring it up. But his statement personalized it while being very minimal.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 07:05 PM) Yea, really. To be perfectly honest, when the story first broke, it looked like a complete screw up due to a vague law, where Zimmerman was the aggressor. This was mostly perpetuated by the media, because it's the story they wanted to be true, so it's the story they seemed to run with, and then a lot of people hopped the bandwagon, because it was free publicity to do so. And it may end up being true...who knows. BUT...as time went by and more detailed emerged, it seems like it may be the opposite based on the accounts of witnesses...if Zimmerman was the aggressor, and had a gun, I find it HIGHLY dubious that Martin ended up on top of him, hitting him, etc...as the witness claims to have seen. Armed with a gun, if Zimmerman was the aggressor, I find it unlikely he'd let Martin get close enough to him if he was ready for it. The only way I see it happening is if he surprised him...which is what Zimmerman's story is...and logistically, trying to think about the situation, it seems likely...as said, if I had a gun and he approached me...knowing that law existed (as Zimmerman did), he'd have shot him right then and there...no way he'd let the guy get up on him and start hitting him. Just seems unlikely. Possible, sure...just unlikely. If this Zimmerman was looking to shoot and kill this kid, I think he would have without taking the chance of letting him right up on him, as is what happened based on witness accounts. I do not think he started out intending to shoot Martin. I think The most likely case is he confronted Martin, perhaps physically, and Martin started to defend himself from this weirdo stalking him. Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked and shot martin. This is corroborated by all witness testimony except for Zimmerman. We dint have evidence that he actually did return to his car.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 07:05 PM) Yea, really. Whys that?

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:59 PM) it's starting to look very likely Not really.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:54 PM) Sounds like exactly what you'd read if you read testimony of 1 side of a 2 person conflict where the other is dead. The only "source" who is claiming Martin was the aggressor at this point is the man who shot him. the headline is false.

QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:41 PM) i have no knowledge of law or anything like that, but i have a question. Is there anything to be said about Zimmermans injuries i.e. his fat lip, bloodied nose, cuts on the back of his head in regards to there being a possible assault on him before he decided to use deadly force? There was obviously an altercation. What nobody knows at this point is who initiated it. The closest w have is Zimmerman himself and the girl Martin was on the phone with moments before.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:35 PM) Shot to injure, not to kill. Not saying either party isnt to blame. seems like both have some major fault. But aim for a leg or arm. or even a shoulder. Aim for center mass. You don't shoot to injure in reality unless you're highly trained to do so (e.g. special forces, not regular police).

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:33 PM) Well well well. This story is certainly taking a turn. Not really.

QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:00 PM) Trayvon Martin the aggressor, police sources say. Covered this, the witness says he say Martin on Zimmerman. The witness does not claim to have seen the start of the altercation. The only one who claims to have knowledge of that aside from Zimmerman is a friend of Trayvon who was on the phone with him. She contradicts Zimmerman's story. Sloppy writing at the Tribune there.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 06:11 PM) Interesting picture I saw on FB.... QUESTION PICTURES ORIGINATING FROM STORMFRONT, ALWAYS. This was already covered, that's the wrong Trayvon Martin.

"An intimate journey across the violent landscape of our cities through the eyes of those fighting to sow peace and security." A Frontline report on CeaseFire. edit: based largely on this docu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Interrupters

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 26, 2012 -> 04:51 PM) Not quite the same situation...but the fact that it happens on a near daily/weekly basis and hardly anyone seems to care is what should draw huge amounts of outrage...it shouldn't require a one-off account like this to draw attention to a problem. This drew attention to a badly written law in Florida...good. This gets national attention...but kids dying in Chicago gets a few snippets in local papers and then everyone forgets. Well, everyone except the families that lost an innocent child because of a piece of s*** wielding a gun in a City with some of the toughest gun laws in existence...yea, that's working well. Been meaning to watch this, heard it's really good: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interrupters/