iamshack

They basically did say LaRoche was lying.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) If that is the case you fire the guy in charge. The owner is in charge. And he can't be fired.

QUOTE (Tony @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Facts: 1. The Sox have made the playoffs once in 10 years, and got trounced in their only appearance. 2. The face of the franchise addressed the media and said the team president flat out lied to them, and wouldn't answer the question of "What do the players think of Kenny Willaims?" Even if you are a Willaims fan, what positive influence does Kenny Willaims bring to the White Sox? I don't understand how he keeps his job. The face of the franchise was just being described as a lunatic about 2 hours ago, and has supposedly attempted to fight other teams by barging into their clubhouse. Because Chris is an incredibly gifted pitcher does not somehow qualify him for speaking for the team or for being in the right on this issue. Now if you want to fire the guy for #1, by all means, do it. But don't do it because of #1 now as a result of this.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) 1) Yes. There is zero doubt that the catalyst was LaRoche. If your clubhouse personalities are so unstable that small interferences cause huge eruptions like this, it should have been in his calculations before acting. More, it should have been dealt with by the entire organization. 2) That the truth has been changing by the hour for 3 days on a workplace environment issue where nobody was assaulted or killed is an example of gigantic incompetence. KW has already shown ineptitude at communicating clearly, for example last July when he threw Hahn under the bus. The catalyst of this, KW and Laroche in a disagreement that has Laroche quit, crap happens. Isolated from everything, I'm on KW's side. But everything that happens after that is what gets KW fired. He has shown no ability to control the message, his employees, or a friendly media (to this point). That's not a good look, especially 2 weeks before your fans are going to naturally get excited to play baseball. I would either fire Kenny or announce organizational restructuring that handles situations like this in the future. Status quo is not acceptable. An ACTUAL issue that requires talent to control will occur soon, and they are clearly not ready. I think you misunderstood what I was writing. To me, this is a bit of evidence that there was a lot more going on here, and this issue is merely symptomatic of that. a. An out of control clubhouse where players will say and do as they please, instead of what is best for the organization b. A dysfunctional management structure/culture c. Organizational policies and protocols which are either not clear or not enforced d. A lack of trust and respect for other employees, particularly leadership While I am certainly not claiming Kenny is innocent, this strikes me as a complete organizational failure, where the owner, the president, the general manager, the manager, and the players are all complicit. If you want to fire someone just to say you did something, fair enough. But if you truly wanted to fix the root cause, I think you're probably missing the mark by simply firing the President.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:24 PM) It would be great if Sale and Eaton handled this as well as LaRoche seemingly is in that letter. Him calling out Kenny is interesting, and if what he is saying is true they absolutely need to get rid of Kenny. I don't think he was calling out Kenny at all. I think he was trying to just recount the facts.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:19 PM) I'm not sure what you mean by "everything" but he decided to take on a task of managing a sensitive issue in the locker room, and did it so ineffectively that it has been national news for 3 days and has his ace pitcher openly talking s*** in the media. That's less than inspiring from a President of the company. And what's worse, since this was handled so high up, the only escalation point is the owner. A few things: 1) So you are reading this fiasco as really just being the result of the LaRoche situation? 2) You are taking what you are hearing at the moment at face value, when the truth seems to change on an hourly basis? We have very little idea what actually happened with this, from start to finish. We may be better served to find out before we start calling for the firing of the President.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) Probably best to just fire KW at this point. He's the president and is showing no ability to handle the team. This will die down eventually, and go back to normal. But if he's this bad at dealing with this stuff... Do you guys have any confidence in KW dealing with a domestic violence incident or something like that? I'm unclear as to why this is all KWs fault...Hahn? JR? Robin? I mean I don't think it is Kenny's role to manage everything you are suggesting it is.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) Adam LaRoche releases a statement: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sof75p Obviously there is some damage control happening on both sides at this point, but that was a well-reasoned, well-written response (yes, I know he may not have written it).

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:26 AM) Wow, Sale calling for KW to be fired it sounds like Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 4m4 minutes ago Chris Sale: The wrong guys walked out of that room, meaning teammate Adam LaRoche, and not #WhiteSox VP Ken Williams Oh s***, Chris.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) Yep, hard-asses tend to not make it as managers anymore (unless you're Mike Scioscia and your owner loves and will never fire you). You have to get players to like you to succeed as a manager these days. Which is why it was logical for Kenny to bring down the hammer. And that's fine. Great. Now Robin needs to say some s*** like "How about we channel all this anger and frustration towards winning games for Adam and Drake, instead of on Twitter." Whatever. I don't care. Just make them shut up. For the sake of the poor kid, even.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:19 AM) From what's come out, the respect the team has for him is what saved a boycott It was also said that was overblown. He needs to get them unified to play baseball. He clearly is not doing that.

QUOTE (Tony @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:10 AM) Right or wrong, no matter if you agree with the decision by management on LaRoche, this was completely mishandled. I don't think "this" was mishandled. More like Robin has no control of his clubhouse. Reason #45465332 he should not be the manager of this team.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 08:42 AM) This is honestly the 2nd most annoying thing about this. You say you're the main guy and one of the bigger stories about the White Sox in years and not a peep. Unreal. Well the problem is that it appears several of the White Sox players have gone rogue. If he comes out and says something publicly, there is a good chance it will be undermined by some stupid tweet. Hopefully, he's earning his money by working behind the scenes.

QUOTE (Tony @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:58 AM) If we are going by what we know, everything was seemingly handled right until the players got in front of media, specifically Eaton. I'm still of the belief players went to management and asked for Williams or someone to step in and have that talk with LaRoche, which I agree was the right course of action. However, if Williams agreed to fall on the sword for the team, after LaRoche announced his surprise retirement, Williams needed to have a meeting with the club and make it clear when media asks about this, you give the standard "This is a tight clubhouse, we don't need to go into what was said or personal feelings, this is a team matter and we dealt with it. We're going to miss Adam, but we have a season ahead of us and that is what we are focused on." Everyone needed to come together and be on the same page. That clearly didn't happen, and to me that's where the biggest PR mistake was made. You raise a good point...but what does Kenny do when the team disagrees with management's decision on the matter? You can't muzzle anyone. All you can do is get rid of them. Do you start looking to move some of the vocal players who don't adhere to the organization's messaging?

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:42 AM) The more I digest this, another thing that annoys me: -The "players should regulate their own clubhouse" trope. I think this is generally true, but this is a case where it clearly favors LaRoche. Tell a guy to knock off loud music, behavior, bringing girlfriend, they probably can regulate that. But telling a guy to stop bringing his kid around, that everyone seems to like, when you are new? That seems tailor made for a situation where you bring it to another party to deal with, one that won't make it a personal issue but an organization decision. Agreed. That is a sensitive subject that doesn't need to be made by anyone on the team. Which is why, if it is true that a group of players went to management and asked them to handle it, at which point management did handle it, I'm not sure they didn't handle it appropriately. Where the problems stem from is LaRoche sort of "taking advantage of" a player-friendly rule by utilizing it to the extreme, and in effect, nearly ruining it for everyone, and then some contingent of the team actually revolting against management's decision. The entire thing is a clusterf***, which is why you had all these GMs meeting with their managers in regards to rules regarding family/friends in team facilities yesterday.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:13 AM) well at least in my case, it's completely backfired and reinforced my opinion that the management of this team from top to bottom has been a s*** show for years and won't be improving any time soon. I respect your opinion more than most...so I'd like to hear your opinion on how you would have liked to see management handle it.

QUOTE (Tony @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 09:00 PM) Alright boys, if we want to get this back on track to LaRoche/Sox, cool. The naked guy/14 year old talk isn't going down a good road (I can't believe I'm even typing that). We don't want to close the thread. I honestly think I learned something.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:51 PM) Oh I was kidding bro. Just personal experience. Well, be careful...he was probably trying to molest you.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) Society is as sensitive as ever, unfortunately Apparently as smelly and dirty as ever too.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) Btw, I did not say that. All I was saying was that kids nowadays don't want to be in any situation where it is possible to see naked grown men and what you mentioned happened in middle/high school for you regarding coaches and teachers doesn't happen anymore. Well, I guess I understand now. It seems like maybe as a result of some of the things that have happened, particularly what happened at Penn State, that teachers and parents have really swung the pendulum as far as they can swing it. And I guess I can understand that...I suppose what you said earlier, while it seemed ridiculous to me, might actually be very correct. Things have changed significantly in the last several years for the sake of protecting children. I think what was always described to my generation as "a part of life," has been described to your generation as something to be extremely careful about.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:36 PM) Not at all, but I'd think with all the Sandusky/Jared/etc. stories out there, you'd realize this is an inappropriate message to send to a child Yeah, this is where I feared you were going. So you are basically equating a teenager being in an adult locker room as sending a message that rape and/or molestation is ok...I may as well equate my son being in a car as sending a message that drunk driving is ok. I mean this is completely ridiculous.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:34 PM) Not many things are worse than naked old men in locker rooms. Seriously why? The other day a dude was taking phone calls for 45 butt naked leaning against the sink Yeah, I get it...but that isn't what is being alleged here. What is being said is that there is a message being sent to a teenager when he is allowed to be in a locker room that child rape is ok. That is the most ridiculous nonsense I have heard in a while.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) I'm seriously astounded you don't see what's inappropriate about this. It's not like this just started, this kid has been around naked, grown ass men his entire childhood and for a young child, that may send mixed signals/messages that makes them think that that is in some way ok. It's not. This is how things such as child rape occur. Not saying that is something that would ever happen in a clubhouse, but that is a really bad precedent to set. Ok...and you are saying I am the one that is strange?

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) I didn't realize you changed the area. What about it? Most teenagers probably don't even go into a locker room at a public swimming pool, they come already dressed in swimming suits on and don't shower before or after. Things are just different now then they were 25 years ago, people are a lot more sensitive. I can't imagine many schools still allowing both students and teachers to shower in the same locker room at the same time. But maybe I am wrong Because they are afraid of other men? This is borderline ridiculous now. Anyways, perhaps you are right. Let me just come out and say it, because apparently I am completely oblivious to whatever this message is...are we thinking that men would want to see kids naked? Or is it some kind of homosexual concern? I am completely lost as to what message a father might be giving his son if he were to allow him to be in an adult locker room.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:16 PM) A public swimming pool and a private club are two different things in my eyes. It has nothing to do with men wanting to shower and change in a locker room, it has to do with a young teen being in there when it is happening especially in a high school like you mentioned. Things have just changed. If you were a teacher at a high school would you want to shower in the same locker room as the students are changing in after gym or a sport? No 14 year old teen wants to see a grown man naked especially a teacher they see every day. 1) But public swimming pools have showers and changing areas where 14 year olds are allowed? 2) You aren't in there to see grown men naked. You are in there to shower and get dressed. I'm not sure why you can't be mature enough as a teenager to understand that your teacher or coach also stinks when he sweats, and also has the anatomy of an adult male, and needs to bathe. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me whatever this message is.