iamshack

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 14, 2013 -> 11:00 AM) One difference. I can show that media portrayal of women in the media leads to bulimia and anorexia in women with a frequency of 9x that of men. While the figures on steroid use aren't clear in the articles you linked, they show high incidences of use of protein shakes (which don't have negative side effects - maybe I'm ignorant, but why is that included - but I digress) in both genders. Ergo, I can't point to the Disney portrayal of heroes as leading to negative male body image (not to mention that the Disney Princesses clearly target young girls over boys). I can with women. Maybe I'm arguing semantics here.... Let me ask you this...is it any easier for men to try to attain the body that most men in these fantasies are portrayed with than it is for women to attain the body that women are portrayed with?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:55 AM) Everyone is judged by attractiveness. It's not very "rationale" (sic) to make up some arguments nobody is actually making in order to knock them down. Women are, without a question, sexualized in our society more than men. Here you go again, flexing your intellectual muscles. To quote one of my favorite movie characters, I bet you feel strong and good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:54 AM) You're assuming EVERY boy is taking steroids to look more attractive or be more confident....or to pick up girls. What about all those kids who want to bulk up for weightlifting, for playing football or a specific sport? You can spin it as much as you like that the goal of every boy who is taking steroid is sexually-related, but if you're familiar with them, you also know they will destroy your ability to get an erection (see Anthony Mackie's character in PAIN & GAIN)...the irony of them making you more physically potent looking but sexually impotent. I think that is the point many of us are trying to make though...it's not about sex. Sex just happens to be what drives most men. Men do things to try and appeal to women. And those things can be equally unhealthy or devastating.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) You put in a valiant effort for that silver medal, shack. Men are not judged on their ability "to provide" constantly and in all contexts. They may be judged by (some) women in the context of a potential partner, but it won't be a frequent topic of discussion in articles or interviews about a male politician or CEO or sports star. They won't be ogled for their "ability to provide" everywhere they go, it won't be a factor in their professional success (because that's sort of circular there). And more and more, women are independent and working on their own and not judging men on their ability to earn money. Nor would that lead to any sort of body issue, that part doesn't even make sense. See, this is what I love about you and Balta...you constantly rip on all the big bad wolves, meanwhile, you play that very role in here with your intellectual elitism. I'm not sure if you have many female friends, but I do...and I also have plenty of gay friends...and trust me, you are being judged a hell of a lot more than you know. You are correct inasmuch as men have a disproportionate amount of power for those judgments to sound out louder or manifest themselves in a more tangible manner, but ultimately, women are judging you a heck of a lot more than you think, IMHO, anyways.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:49 AM) No one would deny that (1) men do it more often and (2) men are more upfront/open about it. But guys are judged all the time and to pretend otherwise is just stupid. My stepdad always tells me that men are some evil sob's, but at least we are honest and upfront about it. Women are far more devious because they hide that s***.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) Man, you just got gold in the 4x4 "not even remotely close to getting it" relay. A bar with drinking can often be a sexual/attractiveness context. The idea isn't that people are wrong or shouldn't judge others on sexual appeal ever. The reality is that women are judged on sexual appeal constantly, men aren't and that this leads to self-esteem and body issues for women and also marginalization. And men are judged on their ability to provide constantly, which leads to self-esteem and body issues for men and also marginalization.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) Go to a bar on a Friday night. All the women judge men equally, right? They all talk to the fat uglies as much as the tall muscular guys, right? And the guy driving the Accord more than the guy driving the BMW...

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) If you can show me stats that 13 year old boys are using steroids in a proportion anywhere close to the amount of 13 year old girls that are bulimic or anorexic, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Until that time, it's a ridiculous comparison. And as already noted in the thread, bulimia and anorexia hit young women at a rate 9x that of men. AND the majority of those it impacts are healthy women. But yeah, let's equate that to the 13 year old boys that are using steroids... We could just use your previous response... Is it the biggest problem of the week, no...but it is an issue.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:29 AM) Generally speaking, depends on the field. Sports? Merit for men, primarily looks for women. Most other fields? Mixes of who you know, race, class, educational background, some merit etc. etc. Sure, but not constantly on sexuality. They're also not in a dominant position of power so to whatever extent women judge men in a sexual manner in a non-sexual context, the actual impact is much less. Plus our culture as a whole doesn't reinforce the constant sexualization of men. I hate to break it to you, but men are pretty much constantly judged for their ability to provide, which equates to how much money they make or how much power they have. In any civilization, both women and men are judged for their overall attractiveness as a potential mate. The characteristics which define that attractiveness just happen to be different.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:27 AM) not responding to that wot until you learn how to use the quote function You're being so elitist because he doesn't use the quote function...how judgmental and terrible of you...we need to eliminate all intellectual elitism from the world and act like mediocre idiots.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:25 AM) Perhaps if we were in an inverted universe where women controlled most of the world and promoted and hired and elected other women with little or no regard for their looks, this would be relevant. As it is now, men aren't judged like this on their looks in damn near every aspect of their lives while women are. But what are we judged on? Or do women just not judge men?

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) One is a serious medical issue. The other helps you work out. How are they even remotely similar? Oh, is it that simple? One involves girls thinking they need to be thinner or smaller, another involves boys thinking they need to be bigger or stronger. Trying to do either incorrectly can be extremely dangerous and cause serious health consequences. Trying to do either can be very difficult just based on genetic makeup, thereby causing even more problems.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) It isn't happening to men to anywhere near the level that it happens with women in virtually every aspect of our society. When a bunch of dudes respond to a feminist criticism of culture by saying "but some guys get a s***ty deal too!" it doesn't destroy anything but their own credibility. More jenks-like intentionally bad-faith comprehension. Men are judged on their looks. Nobody has said otherwise. Women are judged on their looks damn near constantly and in probably every aspect of their lives. Their looks are central to any story if they're getting press coverage. They're a legitimate topic of conversation. Whether or not they give the President a tingle in his dingle is a legitimate comment for him to make at a press conference. They're not going to be a media figure without being at least moderately attractive. Why do you suppose that is? What do you suppose women judge men on?

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) Are you seriously comparing protein shakes and working out to eating disorders? Why can't he?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:04 AM) This isn't exactly heavy-set plus she's pretty stereotypically attractive I was going more for "plain-looking."

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) No. That would be pretty absurd. Stop objectifying women and judging them based on their looks in virtually every context. Don't sexualize everything feminine or female. Yeah, this will happen as soon as men stop breathing... Meanwhile, all I hear on the radio and see on tv lately is commercials for low testosterone. I need to have more vitality, more endurance, and be more ripped...oh, those evil women are objectifying all of us! I really sympathize with your point...but C'Mon, Man!

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 14, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) I find it hard to believe that we have an epidemic of 5-10 year old girls suffering from bulemia and anorexia. To Badger's point, I believe eating disorders for men have been on the rise, actually.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 09:53 AM) Some men are judged sometimes by society on their looks. Obviously, everyone is judged individually by others at some point, but women are judged on their attractiveness constantly and outside of the realm of dating/personal interactions. When was the last time a plain-looking or heavy-set woman was a sideline reporter? Or a news anchor? Or a media darling? Push who over what edge? What hypocrisy? To the extent that men are held by society at large to some unrealistic standard of beauty, it's bad. But that extent is much, much less than what women face. Michelle Tafoya maybe?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) Sure, to some individuals maybe, but for our culture as a whole, no. And those standards within that culture may change over time. Compare today's (airbrushed) models to some Renaissance-era paintings of idealistic beauty. Men aren't frequently judged primarily on their physical attractiveness. So what should we do to all the renaissance paintings and scupltures? Should we ruin David because he is too damned ripped for me to have any self-esteem? Should we burn all those paintings of buxom women because everyone is going to get implants now? What is your solution to this?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 14, 2013 -> 09:25 AM) The attacks immediately came up over her looks. Women are judged on their looks constantly, men aren't. They might be called out for looking ridiculous (orange roid-heads) but a run-of-the-mill guy isn't going to have his sexual attractiveness criticized or commented on routinely as a part of the story. We also have had serious body-image and self-esteem issues particularly with young women so role models and cultural influences seem pretty relevant. "Parents actually parent[ing]" doesn't magically make social influences disappear. I get the issue, but what little girl or boy is going to want to watch the movie about the normal looking boring person? Isn't it human nature to want to portray our heroes as beautiful and strong and brilliant?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 14, 2013 -> 09:25 AM) Breaking: Every Scottish man in America upset that Disney portrayed them as big oafs and buffoons: Sean Connery is livid.

Well did you see the jacket he wore the other day to the post game presser? That was far worse, imo

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 14, 2013 -> 07:55 AM) No, you present Dwyane Wade's youngest sons pants It reminds me of the Kevin Durant commercial where he's wearing the small pajamas

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ May 14, 2013 -> 12:04 AM) I say we sign him just for the potential to shout VIVA ZAPATA! every time he comes to the plate or makes a play. Oh, that would be wonderful! I believe Zapata means shoes in spanish?

Maybe that triple overtime win was actually the worst thing that could have happened to them in the end...