iamshack

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:39 AM) Vast majority of...posters on this board who aren't scouts or gms? You missed the s***show, sorry.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:38 PM) Is he really the 700th though? What if Cordell ranks 350, or 225, or 475? Does his player ranking really truly matter in the grand scheme of things? Cordell has potential and the Sox traded away a veteran player on a prove it milb deal that happened to pitch very well this season (and with a mediocre at best track record) to get him. I was definitely being hyperbolic But see the war projection from the link you posted earlier. How is trading a guy that's on target for the same WAR THIS season that this prospect is projected for over all the years of club control a good trade? If he was projected for like 6 WAR I could understand, but it's just asset we already have so many of. Oh well. I don't love the trade. I give up.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:34 PM) Just saw a Rosenthal article about how much of a buyers market it is for relief help Again, it's also July 25. Look at it this way. We traded a guy that projects to put up about 1 WAR for the rest of this year for a guy that projects to put up 2.8 WAR over the next 6 years. I'm excited.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:27 PM) If Cordell becomes a quality MLB regular you will absolutely have to eat all of these negative posts. If he doesn't pan out, what did we really even lose?? You have to face the fact that a rental reliever like swarzak wasn't getting us a better prospect than Cordell given the glut of relief options on the market. Steven, I will eat all of them. You can even watch.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:24 PM) But calling me a f***ing dick is called for? Maybe you need some time off. I said you are acting like one, which you are. I ordinarily get along with you just fine.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:22 PM) I recall the one tweet we all saw that said he MIGHT possibly fetch a prospect outside top 150 from Hayes that's exactly what the Sox did here so I'm not sure what "vast majority" you're referring to. Seems like this trade falls exactly into what Hayes tweeted out yesterday. If you have other examples where it's stated that he'd fetch something better I must have overlooked and would truly love to check them out. SH, I suspect outside the top 150 still means somewhere near the top 150. If outside the top 150 is still fair game for like the 700th rated prospect, then fine, I stand corrected.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:20 PM) A dick, or a sheep? Which is it? A f***ing dick, like I said. I've said this before too. The constant personal attacks on Greg are uncalled for. I don't agree with him on anything, but you go after the guy constantly. Now, you've attempted to associate his agreeing with me as some sort of personal insult against me. Stop acting like a f***ing dick.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:19 PM) Also I'm sure most realize Mahalanobis Comps are just for fun, but Cordell's comp is Aaron Rowand. a comp outfield of Aaron Rowand(Cordell)/Randy Winn(Engel)/Angel Pagan(Leury) sounds fun. I actually thought of Aaron when I was reading some of the reports on Cordell. If he turns out to be Aaron, we can then trade him for Jim Thome in a few years.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:17 PM) Jeff Passan "How rebuilding is done: Sign guy in late January to minor league deal (Swarzak), turn him into legit prospect (Cordell). Bravo, White Sox." Even national guys are on board with this move Followed up with: The Fear with Ryan Cordell: No true standout tool. One scout just texted: "Fairly ordinary across the board." Sees him as a 4th OF type.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:12 PM) That point in the argument when you realize it's you and Greg vs. Hahn, the media and the rest of the board. And you are acting like a f***ing dick.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:09 PM) Well seeing how Cordell is viewed as a super-sub type and not a true 4th OF he will have plenty of chances to play. Melky and Avi are on their way out and we're likely not going to see any of the big three till Sept of next year with Jimenez so the sox have a year and a half to see what they have in Leury, Engel, Willy, Liriano, Polo, Cordell and Tilson if he can get healthy. Additionally the defense in the outfield will be much improved with Cordell/Engel/Leury over Avi & Melky so thats a win for our young pitching coming up. Avi is not on his way out. Yet. Scouts have said Cordell is not good "in the dirt." I'd say that limits his ability to be a super-sub and makes him more likely to be an OFer. We have OFers. We have more OFers than we know what to do with.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:05 PM) Considering that this is a message board it's not surprising. We're all fans and follow the sport/team more intensely than others, but regardless what we think we know, we aren't in the know of what's actually being discussed (Unless one/some of us are secretly Rick, Kenny, Jerry, etc., I apologize) or what true value of said asset actually is. Soxtalk mock proposals are just that. I'd say I was a bit let down by the Yankees trade after it came out, this one I was pleasantly surprised with. You don't have to agree with me and I don't care if you do and vice versa. You don't have to like the trade either, it's your right. Calling everyone sheep for being optimistic about a return on a player signed to a 1 year milb deal is pretty ridiculous. It's not like the Sox traded away Andrew Miller for Timo Perez 2.0. I called people sheep for accusing me of being an idiot for wanting a player better than Ryan Cordell, when that was nowhere near what the vast majority was speculating prior to the deal occurring. Just because Rick Hahn made the trade doesn't suddenly mean we all have to think it's wonderful, does it? And yet that is what is expected here. See the difference?

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:00 PM) Sox traded Swarzak for a 45FV prospect, some might have wanted a younger middle infield type like Lucius Fox. Hahn turned a rec project into 11M of surplus value;its a win. link fangraphs top 25 brewers prospects Please explain then what we were doing when we traded for James Shields. How much surplus value did we create? How does surplus value work when you already have 5 of these same players and nowhere to play them?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:55 PM) All I've heard for weeks is it's a buyers market. Because it's July 25th.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:54 PM) You know I love Fulmer but that would be too much for what, 20 innings of middle relief/set-up? PLAYOFFS

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:44 PM) Who did you expect for a rental? Especially in this market. Also, don't slam Cordell as being useless before he even gets a chance with us. Please explain THIS market, which we heard was a seller's market due to all the teams still in contention in the AL.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:49 PM) So I'll ask again. What is the MOST you'd give up for Swarzak in our system if the Sox really needed him? Carson Fulmer.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:47 PM) Sorry if I missed it, but what is his back injury He hasn't played in a month.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:38 PM) This is absolutely not true. He is 31st. His FIP is 17th, and his xFIP is 59th out of 165 relievers who have thrown 30 or more inning this season. The ONLY stat he is top ten on is WAR amongst relievers. Of course by that measure he ranks ahead of Tommy Kahnle, which is just ridiculous and a perfect demonstration of what the WAR stat is worth for relievers. Anthony Swarzak is NOT a top 10 reliever. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...a&page=2_30 You are correct. The data I pulled had a wrong field selected. My bad.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:38 PM) Cordell is a much better prospect than engel The scout in the text to Dan Hayes that ss2k linked to basically said they are the same player.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:36 PM) And if anyone points it out at the time, what was the reaction? I'm not sure what you are asking.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:34 PM) Lets play a game. If the Sox were contending right now, but really needed a guy like Swarzak, what would be the most you would give up from this current farm system for Swarzak (Lets say he plays for the A's in this scenario.) Already played that game. If we traded Adam Engel for him, I'd be thrilled.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:23 PM) So Hahn, every media member that has addressed this specific deal, and 95% of the posters here are wrong.....that's what you're saying? There is something called groupthink that happens, and it absolutely happens here. Compare the threads discussing what we think should be the returns for players, and then compare the actual returns for players. The difference is ridiculous.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:29 PM) All of the relievers are qualified. That is why it is only out of 163. If it were a lower number, there would be even more. You can't honestly be telling me that there are only nine or fewer relievers you would take over Anthony Swarzak, because that is what you keep saying here by calling him a top 10 reliever. He is the 8th best reliever by era of relievers who have thrown 30 innings or more. That is pretty damned valuable. He's done it all. High leverage, multiple innings, anything we've asked.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:20 PM) Pretty good is not elite though and there are/were plenty of pretty good relievers on the market. And I'm not trying to be a dick, but do you think honestly Hahn took Cordell over better prospects or do you think he misread the market and should have sold Swarzak earlier/later? You will not find many larger fans of Hahn than me. But do you really think it is impossible for him to misread the market? There are a lot of folks that thought the trade with the Yankees was bad. Why is it ok for you to question him but not me?