iamshack

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:47 PM) Where did I mention baseball cards? You were mentioning Konerko and Dunn. I said who would you rather have up at the plate? You took Dunn. I doubt Adam's mom would give that answer. No, that is not what I said. Let me ask you this, DA...if what we're arguing is that these grades are all relative to expectations, than what does the question "Who would you rather have up at the plate" have to do with anything?

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:48 PM) We thought about some sort of obedience classes. Not that she's awful, but I know a lot of people do that for younger dogs. Thoughts? I think it can be a great idea, but you've got to put in the time with her...don't just sign her up and drop her off somewhere and then come back and get her...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) You're just trying to get under people's skin. I won't fall for it. Hah! I didn't ask you to participate in this thread, DA...you chose to debate the point with me. At every step of the way I've backed up my points with statistics. If the mere fact that I am correct and you are wrong gets under your skin, then yes, I guess I am just trying to get under your skin, DA.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:37 PM) Your answer shows you just want to argue. First of all, is there something wrong with arguing? Is this not a message board? Have I stated anything at all which has not been based on statistics? Secondly, how does my answer show that? Thirdly, your attempts to rephrase the argument into questions like "If you had to take one player's baseball card to a deserted island, who's would it be"? just shows that your argument is weaker than mine.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:33 PM) Who would you rather have up at the plate ? What does that have to do with this discussion? And if I needed a home run, Dunn.

And I ask for the third time, from those of you saying he is merely getting a C right now, what numbers would Adam Dunn need to put up to get an A? How would a guy like Longoria get an A on this grade scale? Would he need to win the Triple Crown and hit .400 with 65 home runs?

And secondly, let me ask you this...who do you think has a better chance to sustain their current production for the remainder of the year, Dunn or Konerko?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:27 PM) His OPS and OBP are severely skewed by his 2011 season. He is about a .900 career OPS guy. (.902 in his NL years) Dunn is .921 right now. His OBP (.376) is actually .05 less than his NL average (.381)and .02 (.374)more when you include last year and this year. Add in the historical K pace to balance out the .019 higher OPS, plus a career normal-ish OBP and I call that meeting expectations. Doesn't what happened last year factor into his "expectations"?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:20 PM) Except he is still way over his expectations as a whole. Dunn isn't. Are you saying career norms? Dunn is .45 points above his career norms, as far as his OPS, and on pace to hit more home runs in a season than he has ever hit before.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:08 PM) Speaking of "difficult to grasp". Dunn is essentially right at his career OBP, and a bit over his career OPS (especially if you drop 2011 and look at his NL body of work). Add that to the historical strike out rate, and I think it is logical to say that he isn't doing nearly what he could be doing, yet he could be worse too. Put it this way. If he is an A now, what was he before he bled 110 OPS points over the last 3 weeks? Where he is at now, is not nearly his A material. His A material is where he was when he was killing everything in the middle of May. The guy is averaging two strike outs per game over the last 3 weeks. Average those three weeks out over the whole season, and I think he is pretty much at pre-2011 expectations. Then you've got to say the same thing for PK. If his apex was when he was hitting near .400, then surely now that he is back down at .360 he deserves a B, right?

There is no magic number you have to "take your dog for a walk." You can substitute other things if need be. What Rock's dogs have benefited from are three things: 1) exercise; 2) a chance to quench their "seeking" sense or curiousity; and 3) a chance to work with and bond with their owner. All these things are desirable, but can be achieved in a variety of ways...don't feel like you need to walk your dog 6 times a day if there are other ways to accomplish these goals. You can work with her to train her in obedience and/or tricks in your apartment. You can sign her up for an obedience class. You can take her to a park and have her chase anything and everything. The key is you want to satisfy your dog's needs in a way that works best for her and for you. However you choose to accomplish that, is up to you.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) Its really not difficult to grasp, and I've said Dunn is doing decently, just not outstanding which would warrant an A. but a hit is still better than a walk no matter what your fantasy baseball book tells you, and a strikeout still isn't the same as any other out as runners don't advance or score. I'm just asking what would warrant an A then?

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) for everyone still in the statistical dark ages (SS, DA, etc) OBP>>>>>>>>AVG in determining a players' value. OPS>>>>>>>>AVG in determining a players' value. why is this difficult to grasp? Well average is just one component of on base percentage. I could understand being frustrated by a low average, even if it was accompanied by a high OBP, if the hitter didn't hit for power. But Dunn gives you the power you're looking for to go along with the high OBP...would it be a heck of a lot different if he hit .300 and just walked half as much?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:28 AM) Right. One reply versus "like 8", and I am the one who is arguing? There is a reason I mostly ignored your posts after I clarified my system. I've been trying to provide data to back up my position and understand your logic better...I thought that's why you created the thread, to stir discussion?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) So create your own scale and have fun. At this point I think you are just arguing for arguments sake. I am? You just replied to one sentence of like 8 posts I made on the topic from two hours ago to try and make your "expectations" argument hold up... Seems to me that's what you're doing...

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:05 AM) The biggest thing to me about Dunn is he's playing confident. His average had gotten up over .250 and now it is down a bit but it will have an ebb and flow and if he's hitting for power I fully expect him to hit somewhere between .240 & .260 and while I agree there is flaws to that and he's not an overly complete player, there is still massive value in what he does and what he has brought, especially given the fact that he's hit a lot of his homers at the right time (which was a historic knock on Dunn). I don't know if I could ever say he's an A but I reserve an A but I do think he's nothing worse then a B/B+ (or even an A-). The only A's I have are Konerko, Peavy, and Sale. They are the Sox 3 best players and they (to date) have been 3 of the best players in the majors at their respective positions. I don't expect it to necessarily last as they will have slumps, etc, but they are all fully capable of being amongst the league best and helping this team. Heck, Dunn is performing like one of the best DH's in the AL as well. Now if you are grading based upon how they performed vs. expectations, then you have a different scale, imo. You can't grade based on expectations because it does not allow a player that has great expectations placed on him to exceed a C, unless his name is Paul Konerko and he is carrying an unsustainably high batting average, or he has some kind of a historic season. I don't know how you couldn't give De Aza an A...he is putting up a slash line of .298/380/.429 and is on pace to score 119 runs, knock in 73 runs, hit 14 home runs, and steal 39 bases at a 76% clip. He is having an incredible season for a leadoff man.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:04 AM) So in other words he is playing to expectations. Yes....but where we disagree is as to how one would grade those expectations... What does he need to do to earn an A? Does he have to hit 75 home runs? His career is basically this slash line: .243/.374/.504 His current slash line is: .222/.376/.545 He's .43 points above his career OPS....and he gets a C?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) Just bought my dad tickets to the Fathers day game (behind home plate). Dodgers vs. White Sox, a true treat, since the old man is a diehard Dodger fan. Awesome! I wish I could make it to one or two of these games, but have no one to watch the dogs for the weekend...have a great time with your Pop!

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:47 AM) Well, it's happened. Someone here has found a way to complain about 2012 Paul Konerko. For someone who stresses "reading comprehension" so much, perhaps you can learn the meaning of the word "context." con·text   [kon-tekst] noun the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:38 AM) If it was last season and you had not watched baseball all year, and 54 games in, you see Dunn's current numbers, you'd say they are pretty decent, but could and should be better in some areas. Now when I point that out, that for $15 million or $16 million, whatever he is being paid, more could be expected, you tell me I'm wrong. He's doing decently. He's certainly not carrying the team. I'm sure the Sox want more. I wouldn't give him a grade of an A. No, I'd have said he is doing exactly what I was hoping he would do when we signed him. Who doesn't want more? I want every Sox hitter to hit a home run every plate appearance. That doesn't mean that is what my expectations should be. If you look at his current pace, his career numbers, his WAR numbers through 1/3 of the season, he's on pace to come pretty close to a career year. That strikes me as being worth an A grade.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:59 AM) He was doing fine when the team was around .500. They have been winning with his perfomance dipping, which makes me wonder why Beckham and Viciedo aren't graded higher. Doing fine? Konerko has sucked in the last 6 games, should we lower his grade too?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:47 AM) Another day... Another day in first place And what a wonderful day that is...hopefully we'll be here for another 120 days or so

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:50 AM) The Sox hot streak started the second game in Anaheim. Counting that game until now Dunn is 10-56 .179 5 homers 10 rbi 18 walks 37 strikeouts During the time the White Sox have gone from stepping back a season or two and rebuilding to solid contender, he hasn't done all that well. If you want to give him an A, you probably want everyone to have a trophy. That's because so many other guys have been hot...what did he do leading up to that point, DA?

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:31 AM) I work from home. So during the morning I have to do some work, be on calls, and I can't supervise her a lot. But can't leave her just out to roam - even if she was in the room with me she's still going to run around and try to chew stuff, etc. The office is different than the main room so I can't leave her in that main room by herself. During the early afternoon I'll take her out and just let her roam. If I go to the gym, back in the pen. Before I have to work again I'll put her in the pen for a while until the wife gets home, and then she's free the rest of the time. If we go out on a Saturday night or whatever, we'll put her in the pen instead of the crate. We usually try to walk her in the evening, we don't always get to in the morning, but I try to play fetch etc inside the apartment during the afternoon to burn off energy. I just think the pen is a much better alternative than the crate for those few hour time periods she can't be supervised (and like I said I think it helps her associate night time and sleeping with the crate now) but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, would a roof fix part of the problem? She isn't always crazy in there, a lot of times she's just chill. But I think if she's wound up or has been with us a while and knows we're there in the other room, she'll jump. If she thinks were gone or it's been a while she calms down a lot and just hangs out. Yeah, give it a shot...you're home so you should hear if she gets herself into an awkward position... Owning a dog is a lot of work when they are young, especially if you have both adults working and no kids to help out. You are going to have to take some chances.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:29 AM) I think when he signed the Sox and all of us expected a .900 or so OPS. Drive in 100 runs. That's about where he's at. When Thome was putting up those numbers for a lot less money, he was hated as an all or nothing guy. Dunn is obviously valuable if he can keep up his current pace. I think coming into this year, just about everyone would have taken an .800 OPS driving in about 75. IMO, it is what makes his performance look better than it really is. I am probably going to echo the Hawkeroo here, but it's not just that he is hitting home runs and driving in runs, but he has hit some BIG home runs that have won games for us. I will say this...just because a guy has put up big numbers his whole career, and then he does it again or exceeds those numbers, I don't believe you grade him as average because there are certain expectations. If a guy scores 95's on tests his whole academic career, you don't say he should get a "C" because that is what he does every time. A "95" is still an "A," no matter how you slice it.