iamshack

See chw42, they just mentioned that some team "asked about Jim Edmonds" on B&B and they laughed and said "asked what, asked that he wasn't going to be on their team?" Bernstein is just so incredibly arrogant for the amount of knowledge he has.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 05:27 PM) It wasn't a personal shot at you. It's just an unrealistic dream. Whoever brought that up pulled it out their ass. Other than John Danks or Beckham, we don't have a thing in our organization that could net us Ethier. That was Jason who brought that up.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:08 PM) What he didn't realize is that Carlos Lee is getting old and regressing. Plus, he is owed around $35 million over the next two years. You're asking for disaster by saying he should be traded here. And that is what Bernstein should have said. The caller was indeed an idiot, but the caller is not the guy that usually has a microphone in front of his mouth. Bernstein didn't have the info in front of his face and so he stalled by saying "he's baaaadd...he's baaadddddd..." long enough til he did get the numbers. Then when he did get the numbers, the guy asked for Lee's numbers last year, and Bernstein conveniently failed to answer him.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:06 PM) But that caller kind of deserved it... Carlos Lee's always a .300 hitter - no he isn't. His last 5 seasons Carlos has hit above .300....the guy wasn't that far off.

Bernstein is such an arrogant jerk.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) Here is what fangraphs says: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/t...os-perspective/ Interesting that they believe Jackson will be worth $10mil on the open market. Hah, you conveniently failed to mention this part:

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:38 PM) Balta pretty much summed it up. Even if you do trade him, then you still need to sign a 5th starter. It's still a distinction. Let's see what kind of numbers Jackson puts up over his last 10-12 starts before we start putting a value on his contract next season. In the meantime, we're not paying him a ridiculous amount of money for the remainder of this year.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:31 PM) Until we are off the hook for it, it still counts. Just like Linebrink's salary. You aren't paying him that now though. You're paying him roughly $1.3 million more this season than you would have paid Hudson.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:14 PM) No one knows... but what we do know for a fact is that Hudson would do at 1/15th of the cost. Just one small distinction here...Jackson will only be making $1.5 million here for the remainder of THIS season. I don't think it's quite fair to be counting his salary for next season just yet...

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:17 PM) And if you were signing the checks that may matter. But the people signing the checks have decided that Edwin Jackson is worth 15x more than Hudson. Probably because 15x0 is still 0. So what you're saying is you'd rather pay exponentially more for the same bad production...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) Really? I feel like the Sox take on this much salary all the time in trades. They did it twice last year, Peavy and Rios make a hell of a lot more than this guy. The Sox take on salary. What the Sox don't do is eat salary when they trade their own players. Last year with Contreras and Thome was the first time I can remember it...

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:28 PM) What they are thinking is simple: They tried to trade Hudson for the best impact player they could get. The only guy they could get was Jackson. When you look at the Sox right now (without Peavy) there staff is good, but it has big question marks at 4/5. Jackson should hopefully be a serviceable and reliable 4th starter. That means Freddy can move to 5. If no one else wanted Hudson, and the White Sox wanted to improve, they had to get whoever they could. What should be absolutely clear is that no one in the Sox organization felt that Hudson was even close to as good as Jackson. They see Hudson every day, and they still thought that the risk of Jackson + 8mil was worth more than Hudson. Doesnt all of this suggest Hudson just might not be that good. I think it is anything but simple....at least I am praying it is anything but simple... I think what they see is either Jackson as another (cheaper) means to an end (Dunn), or they see Jackson as undervalued because of the potential that has not been tapped. I'm not condemning anyone yet, because I think we need to let this play out - whether we move him, or whether they can make some mechanical adjustments - but on it's face, it is a definite head scratcher.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:25 PM) And it should be clear that on todays market, Jackson at 8mil was worth more than Hudson. KW isnt going out and doing other teams favors. This was all he could get for Hudson. That is hard for me to swallow, but you may be right. However, that certainly does not mean that the $8 million is somehow irrelevant.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:22 PM) If people want to believe that Hudson is better than Jackson, thats one thing. But to suggest that some how the Sox dont understand the potential consequences of adding more pitching salary to a team in need of hitting, is just mind boggling. At least give the Sox management some credit, that maybe they know a little bit what they are doing. Thats all I ask from posters, juts give them a shred of credit. You dont have to agree, but KW has been responsible for more success than any other GM in my life. He at least deserves some deference in his decision making. I don't think we're suggesting they don't understand the consequences as much as wondering what the hell they are thinking...

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:17 PM) You can say whatever you want, but id rather the Sox try and win this year, then worry about the salary situation next year. Who the hell knows what will happen, if you have one of the hottest teams in baseball, you try and win with it. You dont pass on a player you think will improve your team because: "Well the other guy is cheaper and maybe 3 years from now hell be our 4th starter" Ill let next year play out when its next year. For all we know Jackson comes to the Sox, dominates and then they flip him for a deal 10x better than Hudson. It cant rain all the time. I'm in general agreement with your theory. I'd like to say the hell with it this year and sort the other things out next year too. This veteran market right now leaves a ton of flexibility to piece things together on fairly short notice, so I am with you there. But that certainly doesn't make the $8 million go away! That doesn't mean it is irrelevant and does not exist! You trade for players in a marketplace, and you pay a price or sell at a price that is set by the market. So the fact that Jackson makes what he does and Hudson makes what he does certainly affects their value as tradable commodities. It just seems as though 1) this was a risk by Kenny to just go grab one piece that the Nats wanted and he is daring them to hold on to Dunn and assuming he can live with it either way; or 2) they really love Jackson enough that they are very certain that they can make him produce significantly better than Hudson.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. Yeah, in like 2003.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:12 PM) No that presupposes that some how the White Sox could have used the money that Jackson will receive this year for a bat. The more likely scenario is that Hudson could not get the White Sox anything better than Jackson. And salary is relevant overall, but not in the context of this trade. Reinsdorf decided that they could afford Jackson. If salary was an issue they would have gotten money back or not done the trade. The Sox clearly feel they can afford this salary, therefore it is not relevant. ? This is ridiculous.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) Except for Jackson would be the equivalent of Floyd in the deal. A guy with exceptional stuff who people have soured on. Im not a huge Hudson fan. No, because Floyd was making nothing when we traded for him. The key to acquiring the pitchers people have soured on them is there is tremendous upside if they have hardly any service time under their belts. If you turn them around, they pitch effectively for very little $. The same cannot be said for Jackson, regardless of how he pitches.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) Jackson's still young. When we got Javy, he was nearing his 30s. I'm in no way defending this deal, but I don't know if that's a great comparison. Javy also had put up a few years of much better production than Jackson has...

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:36 PM) I dont expect the Sox to make a move on every big name player out there, thats not what I am arguing. Im saying that the Sox need a better farm system so when they need to make a move like going after Cabrera, Dunn, Fielder, they can do so with prospects left over to help the team in the future still. You cannot deny that next season the Sox will have a lot of holes to fill with a limited payroll, and all of a sudden youre looking at 2007 again. How did we so quickly have a chance to fall back to 2007 again? I thought in 2007 we were dooming ourselves to years and years of nothing but horrible baseball, because our system was devoid of any talent whatsoever?

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:26 PM) This is also KW's strength, where he goes balls out to get the team in WS contention, and I love that. Problem is, I dont see us having enough pieces for a legit starter and bat, not to mention the holes it leaves next season. That is why I have been advocating for the better farm system, so he couldve gone out and got a Haren and a bat (Dunn, Berkman, Laroche). Given the prices, I think that wouldve been reasonable if we had a better system. In the other thread, Russ, name the other teams that have been as active as the White Sox have been over the past 6-7 years in getting big players that become available. This is some fantasy you seem to have that there are other teams out there constantly loaded with prospects and acquiring veteran all-stars every year simply with a wave of their magic wand.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:15 PM) You just have to go back to the "I want KW and Ozzie fired" thread to see how people dont understand payroll and wat it effects. Oh don't even get me started. If we pull off Dunn and Myers you are going to have a lot of answering to do, Russ...

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:16 PM) The Nats just traded their starting 2B to the Rangers, I think it's pretty obvious that Gordon is on his way to Washington! Sure KW told him he wouldn't be traded but that hasn't stopped him in the past. (Gio) I think that has more to do with Ian Kinsler being on the DL.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:14 PM) Yes I have, there is a professor who is somewhat featured on that show who has the funniest hair ever and he gets REALLY excited when he talks about aliens. It is very fascinating though, lots of civilizations had similar things happen to them across the world at very close periods of time Yeah, he's the guy who publishes "Legendary Times" magazine, Giorgio A. Tsoukalos. I love it when he says "all the ancient texts..."

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:27 PM) I dont really have time to get into this argument again, but I find it strange that pretty much everywhere around the world, independently of one another, sightings of a similar large primate/man have happened throughout history. Not just in the last 100 years. I am probably wrong, but hey, until 4 years ago nobody believed that there truly was a 100 foot squid in the ocean Kyle, Have you seen the series on the History Channel entitled Ancient Aliens? There are like 6 episodes that are two hours each. Really awesome stuff if you like this kind of theory.