[Was Trading Brandon Allen a Mistake?]

AB 145 AVG .324 HR 12 RBI 32 SB 6/6 BB 20 OBP .413 SLG .641 OPS 1.055

 

He's raking for DB's AAA team

 

...and it has been mentioned time and time again that the league is a very strong hitters league where inflated numbers are the norm. Not that he didn't have a nice stint there, but it's not the same as if he put up those numbers for Charlotte.

[Contreras to start again?]

Because of that roster expansion, I think DL-ing Lillibridge would make sense ...PR is his best attribute and that can be replaced with a call-up.

 

Granted I dont know when Hudson's last start was.......but just on a theoretical level, dont you start Hudson against the Yanks and just pray --hey it's a live arm with control, assume you have a fighting chance seeing as how they've never seen him before... at least enough to get you through 5 to get to Carrasco?

 

I wouldnt say this if Jose hadnt been so consistently bad besides the KC start.

 

Hudson has been throwing A LOT of pitches lately as he adjusts to AAA. Starting him against the Yankees is not only a bad idea, it puts him in a position to fail, not succeed. I think Chisoxfn made a more eloquent expression of this in another thread.

[White Sox/Yankees]

these dreary rainy conditions are going to seriously impact our aggressive running game.

 

This made me laugh. Sox have hit CC well at times over the years - this is a very winnable game.

[Was Trading Brandon Allen a Mistake?]

If the bullpen was 2007-bad again this year, I wonder if people would still be undervaluing the importance of a bullpen. As bad as the pen has pitched at times this season, it's nothing like it was in 2007.

 

It does seem that the number of Brandon Allen lovers has dramatically increased after Pena gave up that walk off to Ortiz.

[FIRE WALKER]

Probably a lot of them.

 

BS? Then why does it seem our most veteran hitters seem to always attempt to knock the ball out of park rather than string hits together? Why does this offense CONTINUOUSLY fail to score runners with as little as 0 outs (a considerable amount of time we have guys at 2nd and 3rd no outs and CANNOT score). I'm sure you'll tell me it's entirely the players' doing. Bulls***. It's been like this for years now and it's getting old. SOMEONE needs to get this through to these players; apparently Walker isn't doing it. It's not like I'm making this s*** up.

 

I do not understand this common mentality on this board with people arguing around an argument. So basically you are convinced Walker is the best possible hitting coach we could have right now, correct?

 

I don't know why I even bother. Always lazy excuses; never an intelligent, thought-provoking argument.

 

Nice - insulting the poster. Great way to make your point.

 

Instead of it being 100% Walker, maybe this is the way the players are? There are two "constants" in this equation, Walker and the players, yet you ridicule someone for saying it's the players when you say it must be Walker? Where's the logic in that?

 

At some point, you have to look at the type of players the Sox have. They don't have line drive hitting, high average (by high average, I mean consistently above .300) type hitters. These hitters have been this way their ENTIRE career, but it's Walker's fault they don't change?

 

I'm not saying Walker has no fault, but he gets way too much blame around here. As DA said, every "great" hitting coach looks like a goat within a year or two.

[Tony Pena pitches floating fastballs]

I just find it odd that people are so inconsistent between him and Walker. AJ, Pods, and Beckham are having nice offensive years and Walker gets no credit. Just about the entire bullpen and 3 out of 5 starters suck and no one criticizes Coop.

 

I agree with this. Walker takes all the blame when the hitters struggle, but Coop gets no blame for when the pitchers struggle.

[Tony Pena pitches floating fastballs]

Why do we keep going along with this myth that Coop fixes guys that are flawed? How many guys have gone through our pitching staff that he couldn't turn around?

 

MacDougal

Aardsma

Riske

Koch

Vazquez

Linebrink

Vizcaino

Rausch

Pena

 

There's probably more I can't think of right now.

 

Not all of those guys were "coop will fix 'em" type guys. MacDougall wasn't (but ultimately became one); Riske wasn't (he was with the Sox what he always was), Koch wasn't (he just sucked with the Sox)... and I could go on and on. The "coop" method has been to take guys with great stuff and help them harness it (most famously with Thornton). Pena was a decent pitcher already - he's not some scrap heap guy we're counting on our pitching coach to fix. If Coop can help him gain more control, Pena could turn into the "stud" set-up / closer some people projected him to be. If not, he'll be a middle innings relief pitcher - which is what he has been till now.

[If Ozzie benched Swish for Wise]

And this doesn't just apply to sports. You throw veterans in any profession under the bus "to send a message" and your organization's reputation will suffer. Those who adamantly disagree with this have likely never managed another human being in a work environment before.

 

I completely agree with you here. I avoided that particular analogy because people like to argue "it's different cause they play a game for a living and make millions!"

[If Ozzie benched Swish for Wise]

Right, cause we can really afford another few weeks with our #3 (although not last night) hitter hitting under .200..

 

Actually, you're right. The season is over anyways. Let him hit his way out of the slump, no matter what the cost.

 

Last I checked, Dye wasn't the #3 hitter anymore. You win or lose based on your stars. Dye is one of this team's stars, and he's going to get a very, very long leash. Teams win divisions with guys like Dye, not Kotsay, and that's not a knock on Kotsay, it's just who Dye and Kotsay are at this point in their careers.

 

On a different point, we can argue about the "right" way to treat players. This isn't a "2005" argument, it's an argument about a guy that's produced pretty much every year he's been with the team.

 

I'm glad to see that Ozzie finally moved him down in the lineup. I'd definitely give him more days off than usual, but benching a recently very-productive veteran like Dye permanently is tough to do. Further complicating matters is the fact that Kotsay isn't much of an improvement.

 

The Sox are going to live or die with Thome, Dye, and Konerko. They either start playing NOW, or they'll be watching the playoffs from their couches.

 

I agree completely.

[Important Quotes from KW and AJP]

A very good 3rd OF to go with Rios and Q...preferably a left handed one.

 

Any ideas? (Not a challenge to you... it's an interesting idea)

[Ozzie, I've Put You On Notice]

I tend to be an Ozzie supporter, but I get tired of the team being "tight" all the time. Isn't one of Ozzie's talents supposed to be loosening up the clubhouse? Steve makes some good arguments in his article, but I think Ozzie gets 2010 for a full year with these new players. If he doesn't get it done, it will be time to seriously consider a new direction.

[If Ozzie benched Swish for Wise]

Wow. Some pretty amazing sentiments on this site the last few days. I could see Ozzie doing the "Dye needs a few days off to clear his head" thing, but he's not going to bench him. Maybe if this slump lasts another couple of weeks, but not sooner than that, IMO. Sure, maybe some of it is "loyalty," but it is also a long history of production. People act like the only reason some of these guys have jobs is because of 2005 but ignore their production since then.

[Why Chris Getz Injury Is Good for the Sox]

When people start praising his range I'll happily see them knock his error total.

 

I think most people recognize the range argument but can't consider a guy "excellent" defensively when he makes so many mistakes. Of course, Nix is helping himself out tonight with his bat.

[Why Chris Getz Injury Is Good for the Sox]

Yet another example of why drawing conclusions from small samples sizes is a bad idea.

 

In baseball, sometimes small sample sizes is all you have. If Nix wants to keep the starting spot, he needs to "steal" it by making it impossible for Ozzie to go back to the status quo when Getz is back. His power was on display this month (3 HRs, 2 2Bs), but so was his defense (in a bad way - 3 errors this month). For a guy that is supposed to bring so much with his glove, he's been disappointing this month.

[Getz Begins Rehab Assignment on Wed]

GRINDER!!! Nah, i like Chris Getz. He's the most fundamentally sound player on the team, and i like how he plays the game. I just don't think he's the best 2b on the team, right now.

 

What has Nix done the last week or two to convince you he should keep starting when Getz is healthy?

[Why Chris Getz Injury Is Good for the Sox]

The Examiner runs the math, concludes Nix is better, and then oddly concludes he’d still want Getz over Nix. I think this debate calls for a new statistic, “The Grinder Effect”, I’m just not sure if it’s measurable. http://www.examiner.com/x-425-Chicago-Whit...r-the-White-Sox

 

Nix isn't exactly shining in his "full-time" opportunity right now. He's being exposed offensively, and he continues to make big mistakes on defense regardless of what the defensive stats say about his runs saved.

[Anyone gonna be in Gwinnett, GA tomorrow?]

Thoughts from tonight:

 

1) GA women are jail bait

 

2) Peavy is a badass....although his pitches don't look that great yet

 

3) Fields, get the hell out

 

4) Flowers, you have skillz

 

5) Sweetwater products are great, but I do miss my goose island

 

I'm an idiot - I thought the DH was tonight (Tuesday), and I could have made it last night.

 

On the bolded - so true. I really enjoy sweetwater but hate that I can't get Goose Island down here.

[Anyone gonna be in Gwinnett, GA tomorrow?]

Peavy makes a start at 6pm tomorrow. Knights vs Braves. Anyone else gonna be out there? Internship in the CHI is finally over, so I'm back at Clemson. Only about an hour from this game. Just wondering if anyone else is around the area.

 

Go ahead and translate all of this into don't stop get it get it.

 

I might go. I saw the Knights play @ Gwinnett earlier this season, and I completely forgot they were playing here again.

[Official 2009-2010 NFL Thread]

I would, but Brady is back.

 

I'll say Patriots/Chargers AFC title game, and Falcons/Eagles NFC title game. The 6 worst teams will be, in order: Cleveland, Tampa, Detroit, St Louis, Jacksonville, Denver.

 

 

I, too, appreciated Rex. He got ripped to shreds yet he wasn't really all that bad. His preseason game the other night, however, was hilarious. 5 snaps, 2 INT's, fumbled snap, and another fumble. Or something like that.

 

Falcons are gonna regress a bit IMO. No inside "local" knowledge, just a feeling that Ryan won't be quite as good while the Saints will still be very good and the Panthers will be better.

[Are the Sox done?]

Mark Buehlre since his perfect game is 0-4?

 

Lost season series to Baltimore, a truly bad team, 5-4.

 

Barely ahead of KC on the season series, 8-7. Same horrible record against Cleveland.

 

The only AL teams were are ahead of on the year by more than a game are NYY, TB, and the Angels.

 

The big boppers in our lineup -- Dye and Konerko -- have stunk since the ASB. Beckham is having a slump. Alex Rios can't get a big hit. Mark Kotsay is hitless so far with men in scoring position. Scotty Pods has been picked off how many times?

 

I just don't see this team turning it around. It is the antithesis of the 2005 team. That team was great in 1-run games. Played excellent defense. Had consistent starting pitching. Led games early and held on. This team plays very poorly in 1-run games. Has horrible defense. Has inconsistent starting pitching, even from its top 3 guys.

 

I'm a die-hard Sox fan, and right now I'm dying watching this team play ball.

 

Just when you think they're dead.... they'll pull you back in! Just wait...

[Road trip prediction poll.]

The way things have gone this season, the Sox will play well (at least above .500) now that everyone is declaring them dead. I'm predicting 6-4.

[Dye is seriously slumping]

I wouldn't be opposed to another year of Thome. But I also be on the lookout for a Blalock-like veteran who will help fill impending the massive hole in the middle of the lineup in 2011. Looking at just 2010 is short-sighted, IMO.

 

You are right, looking just at 2010 is shortsighted, which is why I want to keep open the chance that one of the guys from the minors gets a chance to succeed or fail. The team doesn't have so much financial flexibility to overpay for a mediocre player right now.

 

 

Given what the Sox farm system has produced over the past five years, a "mediocre player" who can actually hit at the major league level might be a better option. Understand that Thome, Dye, Konerko, and A.J. will all likely be gone in 2011. Do you think that the Sox farm system will go 4/4 in replacing those guys? I like what I've seen from Flowers so far, but even going 3/4 with prospects is a long shot. I'd rather spend a little on a "mediocre" veteran left-handed bat who I at least know can hit competently at the major league level.

 

I'm not some minor league optimist who believes all our top prospects are going to become stars, let alone productive major leaguers. However, I think that the talent shown so far in the minors suggests leaving one or two spots open to see if these guys succeed or fail. I don't expect the team to go 4-for-4 in replacing Thome, Dye, Konerko, and AJ, but I don't think they have to. If players continue to perform at the minor league level, you have to give them a chance to succeed at the major league level, or you can spend a ton of money. The hardest production of those 4 to replace is AJ's production at C (offensively, at least) and the left handed power of Thome. The right handed power of Dye and Konerko can be replaced more cheaply through FA.

 

 

With all due respect, where's your guarantee that Thome's OPS is going to stay at .900 next year, when he turns 40? His batting average already way down this season, most likely due to his slower bat (he was whiffing at 89-91 mph fastballs in the Seattle series). When pitchers realize this and stop pitching around him, he'll draw fewer walks and his OBP will drop significantly.

 

There's no guarantee. People have been making that claim about Thome for the last couple of years. He has shown a decline but nothing so precipitous to suggest that he's gonna fall off a cliff next year. In fact, his numbers are slightly improved this year over last.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely against bringing Thome back for one more year. But you have to consider what will benefit the team in the long run as well. Peavy and Buehrle will still be around in 2011, and it'd be a shame to run half of a lineup of Josh Fields and Brian Anderson-type players out there with them.

 

I've been one of the biggest opponents of a full "youth movement," but I recognize the importance of bringing a player or two along each year to keep replenishing the major league talent pool. You're exaggerating my point of view by suggesting I want "half a lineup" of those type players in 2011. In 2010, there's only one open spot: Dye's. Depending on what happens in 2010 in the majors and the minors, the team can decide what to do with the contracts ending after 2010 (Konerko and AJ). This also assumes that KW makes no additional trades on the offensive side, which is hard to believe. In short (too late!), I think the Sox need to give talented minor leagues a shot one (two at the most) at a time in the next couple seasons.

 

In any case, this has been a good discussion WCSox!

[O's @ Sox 8-23 1:05 CSN]

You won't see many non-K ABs worse than that one from Rios.

[Dye is seriously slumping]

Who was the last good hitter that the Sox developed through their farm system? (Besides Beckham, who went almost straight through from college.) Josh Fields? Chris Getz? Brian Anderson? Please don't tell me that you're relying on people like Jordan Danks to replace Thome, Dye, and Konerko over the next few years.

 

I'm not counting on it, but I wouldn't be spending money on Blalock (or a similar player) that is likely to want a multi-year deal. If I'm the Sox, I take another year of Thome who likes playing for the Sox and will likely come at a one-year deal and a very reasonable price. This buys time to see if the younger players develop while not tying the Sox into contracts with mediocre players.

 

Meh, maybe not Blalock specifically, but the Sox need a younger veteran bat. Thome won't be sporting a .900 OPS for much longer. Rios was a nice start, but they need one more. At this point, you can't even rely on Quentin to stay healthy enough to build around.

 

With all due respect, name that player who can put up near Thome's production without costing an arm and a leg. The Sox have made their investments in Rios and Peavy.

 

 

[Dye is seriously slumping]

He also turns 39 tomorrow and is so fragile at this point in his career that he can't do anything other than DH.

 

I'm all for bringing back Thome for one last year at the right price. But the Sox would be much better off over the long term with somebody like Blalock.

 

I disagree. Blalock gives you more versatility in that he can play the field, but he's not a 3B anymore, so you're only getting 1B and DH from him. He'll give you the power Thome has, as well as the low average Thome has, but his OBP and OPS sucks (.277 / .754) this year. Blalock also will probably want a longer contract for more dollars per year than Thome at a time when the Sox have some potential hitters coming up from the minors in the next two years. I still take Thome at a reduced price for next season.