beck72

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jan 1, 2005 -> 03:14 AM) Realistically payroll could be up to $80 million if both of those moves happen. Pierzynski and Iguchi together could cost from $6 to $8 million, while Rowand is going to get a raise in arbitration as well. It all depends on what JR wants to do, and whether or not he's willing to go with this, if he thinks these extra moves could help put us over the top in the division. If the sox got both AJ and Iguchi, Everett could be dealt for a prospect or two. Then his $4 mill salary would be off the books. With adding offense at both of those spots, Carl's bat is less needed. And they should be able to get talent comparable to Rauch and Majewski. Carl's bat and power could be coveted by a small market club

QUOTE (ISF @ Dec 31, 2004 -> 11:02 PM) I'm sorry, I know I haven't taken Geography as a course in over 12 years, but when did Chicago move to the East Coast? Of our 5 starters, Jon Garland is now the cheapest at 3.5 mil. I just can't see, based on our payroll, trading for Vazquez. KW specifically stated we only would have traded Konerko for RJ. Those things tell me someone is recycling old news. Vazquez isn't coming to Chicago. Based on how badly the sox were after Vazquez before, you have to think the sox would be willing to see what his asking price is now. It's got to be less, certainly not the PK and Garland price as rumored before. I think the Sox prob. won't get Vazquez for the simple fact that AZ is a very poor judge of talent. the Sox would offer them a good deal that they'll decline and get crap from another team [like the bucket of spit from the O's, with 5 no-talent guys going to AZ]

QUOTE (Sanjay2000 @ Jan 1, 2005 -> 12:49 AM) If I were a GM, I would easily take Jon Garland over Javier Vazquez...sure, Jon Garland's numbers have not been phenomenal over his career but keep in mind that he's still very young and he has experience and he's just gonna keep getting better and better...with Jon Garland, you are really paying for the future because he has the stuff and experience will just keep making him better...sure he struggled early in his career but that was more because Jerry Manuel had no confidence in him...if your boss at work keeps talking you down and never gives you challenges, how can you expect to get better? Garland is young and could easily pitch another 15 years in the big leagues...at 15 wins a season, Garland could easily still win 300 games and go to the Hall of Fame...it would be a grave mistake to trade Jon Garland right now...his sinker is also perfect for US Cellular Field too...Vazquez is ovverrated, his health is questionable and he got rocked in the AL, he's an NL type pitcher i think and he has a great arm but his upside is not as high as Garland's...Garland if he puts it together could easily win the Cy Young which gives us four Cy Young Quality arms (Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland) to go with the crafty veteran El Duque, only the Chicago Cubs and New York Yankees have better rotations than the Chicago White Sox There is no guarantee Garland will get better and better. He has shown spotty progress at best. I do like his consistency and ability to stay healthy Vazquez overrated? He has shown all-star, "ace" type progression in the last 4 yrs, with being named an allstar in 2004 based on his 10-5 record, and 3.57 era in the AL. One poor 1/2 a season shouldn't discount the 3 1/2 yrs of steady and stellar work on lousy Mon. teams. But Garland has more upside than Vazquez?! Not a chance.

While I'm leading the 'trade Contreras' faction, does he have a no-trade clause? I know he waived it to come to the Sox. But does he still have it? He seems like a stand up guy, who might waive it ['I didn't want to stay where I wasn't wanted' about leaving NY]

Wolf had elbow problems last yr. Would AZ want to risk trading for an injured SP?

GEtting someone for the middle IF isn't a luxury. someone will come in

Welcome to soxtalk bob

I could see the sox making an offer of Contreras and Brian Anderson or Garland and Everett--each w/ a bigger salary included. AZ prob will get Shawn Green for RF. Anderson could play CF for them soon. Contreras and Anderson?

One thing I forgot about: Brad Halsey, the SP AZ got from NY, is a LHP. Both Bedard and Wolf are LHP's. They may have gotten their one LHP in the deal and want a rHP

If the starting point is a SP like Randy Wolf or Erik Bedard [both injury risks] the sox have a solid shot at getting him. Add a bullpen arm like an Adkins and Joe Borchard, sounds doable.

Interestingly enough, Contreras won a June 15th game at AZ, going 6 1/3 IP, 2 er, 5 hits, 6 k's and 2 bb's. Maybe that stuck with them. we know how KW likes targeting guys who play well vs the Sox. With Contreras, he's a big risk. Esp with el duque's health concerns. Garland is more consistent. I'd rather keep Garland, who at 25 still has potential to get it together. At 33 Contreras should have his act together. And you're right, Az prob. wouldn't have to give much in terms of cash in the deal, which is important for them as they've signed a few FA's this yr.

This sounds like Ozzie pushing for a player, and KW giving in. Hopefully, the money and terms are right and we'll have a new C.

From the Daily News, FWIW: A few parts stand out. Among them that AZ has agreed privately tried to oblige Vazquez and trade him to a team near the east coast. And that they want an established SP in return [at minimum]. The Phils may offer Randy Wolf. So far the O's seem willing to trade Erik Bedard [who coming off tommy john surgery, has some health issues--and was shut down at the end of last yr]. I don't know who the tigers are willing to trade. But a Sox pkg starting w/ Garland [or would Contreras be a possible match?--Az seems to be a crappy judge of talent] has to be right there with these teams. Contreras can be lights out. But he also may only go 1 inning after walking 10 batters. Even if Garland has been mediocre, at least he's been better about not beating himself with 5 BB's in an inning. The price for Vazquez shouldn't go through the roof. Though the O's know Vazquez through mgmt's ties with him in Mon. With the bar set for Hudson and Mulder, and Vazquez a step below them, it's within reason the sox could get him for less than what has been mentioned all off season Here's the link: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...2p-228675c.html

The more and more I hear about AJ, the less serious I take the "clubhouse cancer" label. Is AJ irritating, obnoxious? Probably. Does he play the game the "right way", with intensity and fire? Probably. I think most sox players and fans will take an obnoxious guy who can help the sox win over a good guy who helps them lose with dignity and class. If the offer is a decent one, the Sox would be a good team on which to prove himself to the league. sign it soon AJ http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox31.html

I don't think many people have a problem with Willie's numbers. I think people have a problem w/ a player who says w/ a straight face that he should hit .300 and steal 50 bases "easy" when he's just hit .260 and stole 19 bases. Nothing worth having is easy. Willie would do well to do what Aaron Rowand did before the 2004 season--work his ass off. Then, after the season when Willie hits .300 and steals 50 bases, everyone will know he put in the effort to get the job done

If the comparison is having Orlando + AJ or Matt Clement, I'd take the former. That Orlando has pitched well in big games is an important factor in adding another SP. The sox have few players with a lot of playoff experience. Adding guys like Dye and Orlando [and possibly AJ] can only help during the reg. season when there are big games and series which determine who will make the playoffs.

Exactly. The Sox needed vets to be "sure things". Hermanson was exactly the pitcher the Sox needed: a versatile guy who can give them a lot of innings; that he could potentially close was a huge plus. Vizcaino also will be a big move as he can potentially close. But having a top bullpen means having young guys step up when the Sox need them [injury; ineffectiveness; etc]. the sox need more guys with the potential to have ERA's in the 2's and 3's, who can keep the ball in the park and have low WHIP. Manhands, Munoz and Diaz I think can do that. I don't think Adkins can do that. Even Cotts is a question mark, yet how the sox moved him around last yr had a lot to do with his final numbers [though his high HR allowed are a big concern for a bullpen guy] The A's have upgraded their bullpen, similar to what the sox are doing. Bringing in solid arms. Yet they also know when to upgrade. They traded 27 yr old Justin Lehr to MIL as part of pkg for Ginter. He had a 4 something ERA in his 1st yr. Yet they brought in Cruz, Calero, have other arms like Street coming in. Adkins is similar. He performed well at times. Yet the Sox have a few guys who may be better fits [low WHIP, lower SLG, OBP] in Baj, et al. Maybe what I'm trying to say is the Sox need young guys with "higher ceilings". They finally have guys with "stable floors", vets who can get the job done, even if it's not pretty. Yet they shouldn't discount what a rookie can do, esp if they never give him a chance. Guys like Munoz, Baj, Diaz may start the yr in AAA. Yet if guys on the sox aren't doing the job [esp Adkins, Politte, Cotts], they shouldn't take up space like Jackson did last yr. Most playoff teams have rookies who contribute, who surprise and surpass expectations. The sox need more of these surprises

Iguchi won't get more than $2 mill from any team. Make 2006 $4 mill; a 2 yr $6 mill deal. Cora or Cairo would make even less. AJ could be had for a 2 yr deal, $3 mill this yr, make 2006 an option yr at $5 mill. Around $5 mill to fill both positions this year could do it

My point is a lot of people are saying the sox have the "best bullpen in the league", even KW is saying this. If they improve [which I think most will, esp. Marte and Vizcaino], maybe. But not as it stands. Don't get me wrong I like the moves they've made. But I want some young guys to come out and shine, like a lot of successful clubs do. Also, the twins have young guys who will likely improve on their solid 2004 ---Crain, Balfour. Nathan may come down to earth. Yet they should be solid, as always.

The Sox and Twins OPS #'s [slg + OBP] has nothing to do with other bullpen guys. It's how many baserunners they've allowed. If I was comparing ERA's then Mike Jackson would figure in.

Offman reported on the Score that KW had "recanted" his 'AJ isn't a good fit' line, but that sources within the Sox had expressed concern about AJ. During the first update, Offman said the Sox were interested. During the 2nd, he said the Sox had now offered AJ a contract. That AJ hasn't signed w/ anyone, leaves me to believe the Sox could get him if the offer isn't a joke.

Keep him in AAA as an insurance policy in case of injury. The Sox need guys who can get some outs, post low ERA's, and not just eat innings. Walker sounds like a dime a dozen type

The Sox would do better to let the young guys surprise, as they have vets all set for spots. Give Diaz, Munoz, Baj, Grilli, Matt Smith, Josh fields innings and see what they've got. They could get a washed up guy or two to eat some innings. But save the valauble time for guys w/ a future.

I like Hermanson. He did do better in the pen though.

Was Walker ever decent in the minors? Munoz seems to have much more upside. Munoz has dominated at times, esp winter ball in 2003. Munoz should have been in AAA in the pen all of 2004, after his great 2003 yr in AA. He very well could be ready for the bigs, if he made a stop each yr. The 2 yrs in AA is deceiving as he was working as a SP.