beck72

Couch forgets to mention which "stars" the sox should have signed this offseason and have gone to other teams. All in all, Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque and a PTBNL for Lee is a good deal.

W/ Frank out, I can see PK Dhing, w/ Gload at 1B, and Carl getting AB's there as well. Eck won't sniff DH is my point. The key is, Willie will have a hard time getting ab's w/ two guys like Pods and Eck/ Cora in the lineup.

Where will willie get his AB's from? Uribe, Crede, Frank or Everett while Eck DH's? However you slice it, if the sox bring in a fulltime 2B like Eck or Cora, Harris won't see significant playing time.

that's a great point. Willie sees himself as a .300 hitter who can steal 50 bases, "easy". Riding the pines won't cut it for him. It might for us fans. But chances are he'd have a problem with that role.

The more I think about it, Willie can ride the bench, play 2b vs some RHP while Uribe and Eck move around the IF, and do some pinch running. A few reasons come to mind: *Willie can be good insurance in case someone on the sox gets hurt. Or the Sox can trade him if a 2B around the league gets hurt. His trade value is low now because there a lot of 2b out there. *The Sox have Uribe who can play 3 spots, and have Eck around to move between 2b and SS. Having Willie around to play only 2b doesn't hurt the bench. *Has a low salary, so isn't a drain to payroll

I have no problem w/ either Eck or Cora coming in and taking 2b fulltime. Yet are the sox ready to cut willie loose? With either of those 2 coming in, Willie will likely only pinch run. If it's only to get a guy who can hit LHP who can challenge Willie and be the UTL guy, Cairo seems like the better choice

In today's Daily Southtown, Joe Cowley finished with this: "Williams might be finished bolstering his pitching staff if the Vazquez talks don't re-open, but the Sox are rumored to be very interested in signing former Anaheim shortstop David Eckstein. Eckstein was not tendered a contract by the Angels earlier this week, making him a free agent. "In an effort to accomplish one more piece of the puzzle, it's better if a I don't comment on any player that could fit into it," Williams said. " -------------------------------------------------------------- Seeing how KW probably has one more trick up his sleeve, who is it? Eckstein? Miguel Cairo? Alex Cora? I can see it being Eckstein, provided he can and be willing to play mostly 2b. He shouldn't transplant Uribe fulltime at SS [though he could play SS vs LHP, with Uribe at 2B and 3B to give Crede a rest]. Ana. was talking about moving him to 2B, even though he only has played 14 games there. Ana's GM Stoneman [sp?] was talking about how Cabrera was a big upgrade over Eck's range and arm. Willie could still have a spot, though seriously reduced. [Reading STL's mlb board, they seem to like him for 2B, but not SS.] I haven't heard Miguel Cairo's name mentioned anywhere. As he can platoon w/ Willie playing vs LHP, and play all 3 IF spots, he's more versatile than any guy out there. He also has some speed, stealing 11 bases in over 300 ab's. This way, Harris would still have room to reach his potential. If the Sox think Willie can improve, signing Cairo would be the best bet. Cora would be decent as well. Though the sox would very well be writing off Willie. With his best spot 2b, and his LH bat, Cora on the sox should mean saying goodbye to Willie.

Cora's played over 200 major league games at SS [last in 2003]. Eckstein's played 14 games at 2B [in 2001].

Well put. Getting a guy like El Duque makes the Sox deal from a position of strength. Plus, the don't "have" to deal for Vazquez [even though they need to]

At least of the options available, SS was the only one who made sense. He was a vet w/ some experience. Wright actually threw like the 4th SP. But my point was, it wasn't up to Guillen who he had to choose from in ST. It was KW's job to get guys in [and I know Robert Person going down was key ]

El Duque seems more like the Sox covering their bases in case they can't get an impact arm. It doesn't hurt to have 5 solid SP's. But I still think an impact arm is doable for the sox via trade

Guillen went with the players he had available to him at the start of 2004. He said he believed it when "they" [didn't name names] told him he had the talent to win in 2004. Guillen went w/ Wright and SS based on their solid springs. No rookie mistake there. But it was KW who had to have other guys around in case they didn't work out. Which he didn't Guillen has been decent in evaluating talent and performance [Adkins, Cotts in the pen, keeping Gload, bringing up Burke when he was hitting .220 in AAA; getting Valdez a serviceable UTL guy for Koch--who BTW was not losing games or blowing saves, then was let go after he blew 2 in a row]. And Guillen has been critical of guys like JOe B, Crede, Garland. If Ozzie is one thing, he isn't a tool for mgmt who says all the right things. As far as who could be traded for Vazquez? Who knows? Marte + prospects could work. The yanks have no depth in the minors and Vazquez is one of the few chips they have. I'm saying Garland just to NY won't happen-they don't need him or want him. Marte could work in NY. Marte is a top set up guy--a guy who is valuable. For a team like NYY where money is no object, filling a big hole [which they do have in the pen from the LH side] they may overpay a little.

Let's say the 2005 Sox [with Ozzie adamant about having solid SP] will prob. have learned from their mistakes. Going w/ 3 question marks in the rotation [though better than 2004] prob. is a stretch. Jon is most likely the one to go if Vazquez can be acquired. Marte going into 2005 isn't as valuable as he was entering 2004. He proved last yr he isn't a closer. He might also have proven himself to be a LOGGY. Maybe not. But an untradeable set up guy is lights out vs RHP and LHP. Marte is lights out vs LHP. Not vs RHP. I'm going by Ozzie's comments last yr, to the effect that: 'I haven't met the 2003 Marte'. Doesn't sound like an untradeable in my book. The bullpen can deal w/ the loss of MArte, with Vizcaino and Hermanson added. Both can get LHP and RHP hitters out. Ozzie likes guys who can pitch to more than one inning, and to both sides of the plate. Cora could be added, cheaper and a better fit than Eckstein. Garland could be traded [not to NY to get Vazquez] for a good return to a team looking for SP toward ST.

Why Vazquez? Because he's a #1, #2 starter. If the Sox were willing to give Clement $7 mill a yr, Vazquez is worth $8 mill. I just don't think the Sox are done. Hernandez will make $2 mill, + incentives. The key is do the sox have confidence in him being the 5th SP? With days off etc, he'll be used less to save his arm. Garland could then be a valuable trading chip. No way do I see the sox heading into 2005 with 3 question marks in Jose, Jon and now El Duque. But having Jose as the 4th SP and Hernandez in the 5th spot is less worrisome, with an addition of a guy like Vazquez. Vazquez's price [in terms of talent, salary] is falling. "Losing" Marte and adding Vazquez wouldn't sink the sox. It would improve it. Marte is less valuable now than he was at the start of 2004 for one big reason--he's now proven he isn't a closer. Getting a #1, #2 SP for a set up man [even as good as the 2002, 2003 Marte], is a good trade. Set up guys who have the stuff and makeup to be closers like Dotel, Mota, Lidge and K-Rod aren't worth trading. But set up guys who haven't been able to close games like LaTroy Hawkins and Marte aren't as valuable, esp if a team has other options [like the Sox do, in Vizcaino, Hermanson, Cotts].

I just think the base starts at $2 mill a yr. That makes sense w/ his injury history. More starts = more cash

El Duque's contract sounds like it's 2 yrs and $4 mill total, + more if incentives are reached. Maybe $2 mill a yr guaranteed, and could rise w/ incentives.

I can see the Yanks wanting to get the right players for Vazquez and then trading them for RJ [provided AZ wants and can use those players]. Leaves other teams out of it and they can get RJ on their own. Or at worst, Vazquez could get players the yanks need and can use. They may feel RJ isn't worth all these hoops and go hard after Beltran

Depodesta sounds like he's covering his ass. He was getting screwed big time and THEN he had a health concern about one of the players?!

Vazquez should definitely come at a lower price than before the RJ trade was nixed. Mostly because it sounds like LA is trying to blame Vazquez for backing out of the horrible deal [when it probably was the fact that LA was just purging salary and all their fans knew it]. Form the sounds of it, Vazquez was on vacation and was going to take a physical after he was done. LA spins it as his refusal for the reason to back out. DePodesta seems over his head. Getting Penny and Choi in a big deal but then looking to get rid of them right away. Getting Finley in 2004 but not resigning him for 2005. Now this debacle. My guess is the yanks will deal directly w/ AZ, and then the sox can try getting Vaz from them.

I'm a Cora fan too. But one thing that helped his OBP was 11 IBB, hitting in the #8 hole. Overall, I think Cora still would give the sox more than Eckstein would. And it's more likely he'd sign w/ the sox. This isn't fantasy baseball where the Sox can sign any player who's available. A player has to want to come here, choosing the sox over all the other teams. Is it like a 3% [1 out of 30 teams] chance of him signing with the Sox, all things being equal?!

It's a stop gap measure to give the Sox 5 SP's. Nothing spectacular, esp with the durability issues. I still think the sox will make a run at Vazquez, if the price in terms of players is right as it will take awhile for another RJ deal to go down [which it should be less than what was being talked about earlier, as both NYY and AZ will lower their asking prices; also the yanks were going to throw in $6 mill for Vaz's contract--that amount would go up I bet in the days ahead]. Garland would be expendable then, as trading him wouldn't leave the sox w/ another hole

WSCR as well

I'm going by Cora's tag of having played "gold glove defense". By all accounts, he and Izturis formed one of the best DP combos in the NL if not all of baseball. Uribe was better than Harris at 2B. I remember a guy from Baseball prospectus comparing 2b men in both leagues and Uribe was right up there stat wise, not just the basics, including turning DP's, fielding % of balls hits, etc. Harris was in the middle of the pack. Cora's experience will help Uribe handle the fulltime duties at SS as well. I remember when Harris and Uribe were up the middle how many times they failed to keep the runners close Cora can handle the bat, SH, bunting, a patient vet hitter, who won't k, and can put the ball in play. Harris went in streaks where he was completely overmatched out there. I'm pretty sure his splits vs LHP weren't terrible. Not great but not horrible.

Yeah that's what I'm saying Jose wouldn't have been a bad signing for a team w/o a SS. But for LA, a horrible deal as it stands now