beck72

That too. It all factors into the equation

I don't care if he's a solid citizen. I want winners. IMO, this incident shows something about his committment to winning. [Not just this one isolated incident but other incidents and reports over the years: Frank leading Carlos to workouts during ST this past year making him work out; Lee's weight gain [in 2002, 2003] when he dropped to single digit steals; Lee falling asleep on the bases a lot getting picked off; KW's and Ozzie's comments about Lee not being a "complete ballplayer" at the end of 2004.] Some thing is missing. I don't claim to have any special insight. I go to some games, I read the papers a lot, follow the Sox closely. Something hasn't been right with all the talent the sox have had over the last 4 yrs. Lee has tremendous talent. No doubt. But talent alone has gotten the Sox zilch these last few yrs. As far as trading a guy--If it improves the ballclub, now and for the future, you do it.

IMO, it shows a lack of seriousness that can hurt a team. For his talent and cash he's getting, I want a team captain type of player. This wasn't the 1st inning. It was in the 6th, 7th inning of a close game and the 3rd guy who ran onto the field.

No offense, but Minn. never seems to have guys put up "monster numbers" and still win. They have a solid team. The Sox don't have that right now and if it means trading Lee to accomplish that, I'm all for it.

Just to go back to your point, one game sticks out in my mind. It was the April game [vs KC?] where 3, 4 guys ran onto the field. Lee was laughing so hard, at the second to last guy whose sweatpants came down after getting tackled by security. He was having a ball, laughing. What a true "winner" and serious baseball guy who you'd want to build a team around would have done is been pissed that the guy was on the field. Most people were booing the guy, yelling at him. Lee didn't have to tackle the guy. Just be pissed at him, not laugh it up like a clown and encourage more fools to come on the field.

STL also was involved w/ the A's. A pitcher like Marquis or Haren, and a prospect a few yrs away--Daric Barton?--an OBP machine.

Hence the higher trade value of Lee over PK. I've "debated" Lee's talent before. But the post is about a published report that said Lee could be dealt this weekend. I'm looking at the possbilities of who the Sox could get if they went this route.

I'll take a ballpark figure anyday, thanks. Giles' contract doesn't seem like a big deal. Though the A's would love that salary. I heard about Hudson for Giles and a top ATL pitching prospect. ATL needs SP's. Maybe Garland? He sounds exactly like a Leo Mazzone special for a decent price. Giles avg and OBP for the top of the lineup would be nice

Could Sea. be a possible trading partner for the sox? They need a big bat. Looking at their roster, who could be a decent fit for the sox? SP Joel Piniero and LF Randy Winn, plus a prospect for Lee. Piniero was hurt last yr [though maybe Freddy Garcia has some inside info on him, if he's healthy or not]. Was very solid and improving before last yr, is only 26. Signed through 2006, will make $4.83 mill in 2005, $6.30 mill in 2006. Winn could hit leadoff, is 30, will make $3.75 mill in 2005, has a $5 mill option in 2006 [sox should decline it]. Sox could get a pitching prospect as well, as the health concerns on Piniero would make him a risk. The salaries are about a wash. the sox pick up a UTL IFer like Miguel Cairo and they could be pretty well set. Then they'd still have Garland and PK on board. as far as the Sea. roster goes, Sea might want to sign a FA rather than hope Piniero comes back healthy. Ibanez could play 1B, Reed move to CF. Lee could reunite w/ Olivo, help him along.

Very much so. If Lee's traded, you can point to that as the reason.

From Ben Maller "Braves general manager John Schuerholz might need to trade centerfielder Andruw Jones, shortstop Rafael Furcal or second baseman Marcus Giles to make ends meet" [The link was from philly.com but I couldn't get it] Could ATL be a trading partner? Furcal or Marcus Giles would be nice [though don't know how much Giles will make]. They need a SP, Garland. They'd love to get rid of Jones and his contract

Don't know if this has been posted anywhere but the Suntimes had this little piece in the paper today. ******************************************************* DOUG PADILLA-- While one new outfielder just walked in the door, the White Sox could be preparing to say goodbye to another. On the day the Sox announced that Jermaine Dye will take over in right field for Magglio Ordonez, who will depart via free agency, rumors were circulating that left fielder Carlos Lee might be traded as early as this weekend during the annual winter meetings. ******************************************** People know I've talked about trading Carlos before. With Dye on board, a Lee clone, getting a SP or a leadoff man would be a decent move. The question is which teams would have what the sox want, and would need Lee. The A's come to mind, with Hudson available. Sea. could use a big bat like Lee, but don't know who they have the sox could use. Maybe the Marlins [Luis Castillo everyone--though FLA would like Marte] I guess we'll have to see how things pan out, and get some hints by who KW is seen talking to.

I also think the sox need Carl's LH power somewhere on the field on a semi regular basis. If in LF, then they can always have an Escobar type as a defensive replacement to save his legs and tighten the defense in late innings

If the sox dealt Lee, it would be for a leadoff type hitter in the middle of the field [ss or 2B] or a stud SP. I don't see the Cubs dealing any of their major league arms. And I wouldn't deal Lee for prospects not ready for the bigs in 2005

I see you're another guy who thinks Lee could be traded. I do too. I'm just looking at potential teams that may need Lee. [The Cubs are high on that list, though don't fit with what the sox need; Sea.]

Everett could be more tradeable then most people around here think. His $4 mill contract isn't that bad compared to what other guys want. Put a young arm or a prospect in a deal w/ Carl, and a lower market team has a big bat and a cheap player who can fill a spot on their 25 man roster.

I wouldn't be at all. Lee could bring an impact player [or a few good players] in return. PK probably will only bring a good player at best.

From Rotoworld: "With free agency providing no options in the team's price range, the Brewers might trade Scott Podsednik or Dan Kolb for a run-producing right fielder." The article from the Milw. J/S said MILW was after Dye for RF. Seeing how Carl Everett was in the same price range, would they want him? The Sox could sweeten a deal for Podsednik w/ young pitching, which they said they also could use. Everett, Adkins plus a bullpen arm from AA or AAA like Matt smith or Josh Fields for Podsednik? No deal would happen w/o the Sox trading Lee for a top SP. Somehow PK isn't going to get one himself. I see Lee's name being brought up this weekend. We'll see what teams the sox are talking to

That's what I was saying--PK and some live bodies that were question marks to make the 2005 roster, with the yanks cash, and prospects. Teams will be scared of Vazquez, with his big contract and very poor 2nd half of 2004

I meant that Dye can replace Lee's bat in the sox lineup, Rowand would go to LF, and a CFer like Podsednik could be brought in. A healthy and in shape Everett could play LF, but the sox shouldn't count on him being much more than a DH and a sub off the bench. I think he'll be decent, but the sox should make other plans

I agree about the 3 way. Both the Yanks and D-backs want to get something done quickly--Ny so they can get their SP's signed, AZ before their only trade partner NY no longer wants RJ. I still can't see Garland and PK going to AZ, unless a ton of cash is thrown the Sox way. My guess is a deal along the lines of PK [signed to an extension], and a few guys like Adkins, Munoz + Borchard from the Sox [guys who could make AZ's 2005 roster], and cash, and a SP prospect from NY like Halsey could get it done. [Az is after FA SP's as it is, so a major league SP may not be needed in the deal] If I were the Sox I'd keep Garland and throw some bodies at AZ [like you said, they know the Sox personnel]. That way the 5th spot is taken care of. the sox then would have Garland and Lee as possible trade bait [their two best values] to fill the leadoff spot, which should be the hardest spot to fill. I just don't see many options for leadoff in the IF. Only through a trade that could move guys around the OF. The A's prob. still have time to weigh potential deals, moreso than NYY + AZ for RJ. Though Beane may want to work quickly before possible suitors sign other guys

No way. The Twins will be the frontrunners for the central until some other team clinches the division in 2005---which prob. will be Sept. 2005.

Lots of holes still, with only a few trading chips. Care to add C. Lee to the mix, esp for that "pesky leadoff hitter"? Couldn't Dye replace Lee, if it meant adding the SP or leadoff hitter the sox need?

The way it sounds, Vazquez sounds a lot closer to happening then Hudson. I could "live with" Vazquez provided the cash NY includes gets his salary down to a reasonable number. Garland shouldn't be included, which solidifies the rotation. the sox could fix the lineup with other moves

Renteria