beck72

But by the time Finley's contract is up Anderson and/ or Sweeney should be ready. Dye would likely be dead weight in his 3rd yr, keeping young [and cheap] guys from playing.

Dye would almost certainly get $5 mill a yr. I'd rather pay Finley the $16 mill over 2 yrs [that Det. supposedly offered] than pay Dye $15 mill + over 3 yrs.

Ah, the folly of youth!!! I just got past the first few pages. Same old same old. Wright at $6 mill a yr for 3 yrs was a stretch. Not with his past injuries, it wasn't worth it I do think your friend Finley would look better than Dye. Give him 2 yrs, move Rowand to RF. Dye doesn't do it for me. Esp. as Finley won't cost a pick [the sox do pride themselves on not losing a pick ] Note: that's lesson to all lurking moaners. How to criticize the sox w/o whining.

The same old complaining and moaning everone has heard 1000 times should be reason alone for closing a thread. Certainly not a post that points this out

no doubt. but STL should be very interested as well. They want someone cheap for 2b. The fact he was there, though could work against them

If the Sox are set having Uribe at SS, Cairo seems like the best bet for veteran UTL guy. It would allow Willie to hit vs RHP, and give rests for SS and 3B.

No doubt. The Benson deal alone makes a lot of SP's seem like bargains I'm sure KW did look at the what the Sox 2005 rotation would look like when he made the 2 deals [esp. Contreras w/ Loaiza not coming back, but also getting Garcia locked up for a few years]. It's hard enough getting 1 FA SP signed for a reasonable price let alone 2. Maybe KW isn't as dumb as some people think

Contreras hasn't worn out his welcome. yet. At least he's been mentioned as a possible closer [and has the nasty stuff for it] if he can't fails in the rotation.

I wouldn't doubt Garland could be traded but only after getting a SP like Wright first. If he was moved as part of an AZ deal, then getting another SP like Vazquez makes sense. I don't think Garland will be part of the 2005 sox. No way would Jon have gotten a $1.1 mill raise in arb. So settling early should mean the sox wanted his salary set for teams interested in him

The sox have Ross Gload. They don't need Doug.

I actually forgot to include Garland's $3.4 mill salary in the AZ / RJ trade. so the Sox would spend, at minimum, $17.6 mill in new salary in their "Plan A", not $21 mill.

PK for Roberts and Millar. Word is Boston wants to get rid of one of Millar or Mientzkiwitz [sp?]. Pk's better defensively than Millar, and a better hitter than Dougie. Boston could still trade Dougie.

I start off with the sox spending $21 mill on new players in plan A--what RJ and Vizquel would have made if they were on the Sox---[given all the current players signed for 2005--- the roster as it is being everyone except Pk traded, and w/o Maggs + Jose.] Plan A would have filled that $21 mill with two players, RJ and Vizquel. The Sox payroll, w/o PK is near $53.29 mill. [$29.48 mill for all the signed pitchers--sp and 'pen] + $20 mill for lee, Everett and Frank. The remaining $3.81 mill is the rest of the roster's 2004 salaries,[Gload; Harris; Uribe; Rowand; Timo Perez; Ben Davis; Neal Cotts; Jon Adkins; Jamie Burke-- which will be higher as they'll get arb. raises] Add Plan A--RJ $16 mill, and Vizquel $5 mill gets the sox a payroll near $75 mill, w/o counting the raises in arb.

I didn't see the Gammons article that said Det.'s offer was like 2 yrs and $16 mill. A little too steep for my blood

That's a given. If just talking about the amount of salary the Sox would have taken on with new players.

Good call. His $4 mill a yr for 2 yrs would fit in nicely with plan B. Substitute Finley for Dye or AJ, and he could fit. Maybe I should make an "amended plan B"

you forgot to add "watching the sox 4th place finish in 2005". I think it's clear to KW that the Sox need to make big changes for the 2005 team. Even if it means a desperation last minute deal right before Spring training, I expect a lot of new faces for next yr.

There are few teams in the running for Renteria. STL and Ana [wants Beltran 1st and foremost]. The Sox could be as well. Renteria could get done pretty quickly if a team offers more than the 4 yr, $32 mill STL offer . I listened to the conference call. KW said they wanted Vizquel for his ability to "balance" the lineup and provide "leadership". Uribe at SS, with a Harris/ RH hitting platoon player does neither. Signing a guy like Renteria would fit in nicely with both Sox wants. I agree Kw seems intent on Uribe at SS, thereby keeping Harris at 2b [could be KW has a stake in proving his doubters wrong, that his 2 small deals reap big rewards?!]. Yet I don't think Ozzie is sold on having Uribe and Harris up the middle. Here's hoping Ozzie wins out I think the Sox need more leadership, the kind Vizquel could have brought and Renteria could bring.

I still don't buy the sox going with Crede, Uribe, Harris / UTL guy, Gload as the starting IF with the $21 mill from "plan A" [RJ-$16 mill, Vizquel-$5 mill] still on the table during "plan B" now. Say $6 mill goes to a SP [Wright] that leaves $15 mill. for C, bullpen and an OFer, not to mention who the sox could get via a PK trade? And KW wanted Vizquel for "lineup balance and leadership in the middle"? Will Uribe suddenly find leadership, or will a guy like Grudz [who hit LH's well leading up to 2004], Relaford or Reese [can't hit much vs anyone] be the answer for balance and leadership? Unless Beltran is part of plan B, I don't see how the IF above improves the Sox. I think the key is finding which players fit in plan B. These RH hitting UTL guys sound like plan x or y. My Plan B [$21 mill, as stated Plan A's cash was to be]: a] sign FA's: SP-Wright $6 mill SS- Renteria $9.5 mill RF-Dye [$5 mill] or a non-tendered AJ Pierzynski for C [$5 mill] b] Wait for things to sort themselves out, and then use trades to improve bullpen, minor league depth, C/ Of Somehow, I think the Sox will get leadership and balance for the middle [cf, SS or 2B]. If that means Renteria or prying away Luis Castillo or Pierre from FLa, something needs to be done for the top of the order.

In listening to KW's take on getting someone for 2b who can hit LHP, I looked up a few names of FA's. None are breath taking. The only way this would make sense is if the Sox think Willie can hit closer to .300 than the .260 in 2004 vs RHP. Mark Grudzielanek [will be 35]: hit poorly vs LHP in '04, .220/.281 OBP in 82 ab's; hit .360/.449/. 470 in 2003 in 100 ab's; can't play other spots besides 2B Jose Hernandez [36]: hit .310/.383/.627 in 126 ab's vs LHP in 2004; can play all 3 IF positions; a K machine; no SH's in 2004 Desi Relaford [32]: had a poor 2004, started the season on the DL w/ a pulled hmastring, not sure about any other injuries; was a regular w/ KC but more of a UTL type; can play 3b, ss, 2b and the OF; a switch hitter; hit .300/.409/ .438 in 130 ab's vs LHP in '03 [though hit .393/.507/.518 as a RH hitter-56 ab's]; 5'9", 180 from Georgia [as is Willie and Frank]; can handle the bat and has SB speed. [was 20 out of 24 SB in '03, or '02] Of these three, only Relaford seems to have any upside. Both Grudzelanek and Hernandez offer some veteran ability, and could give some production. Talk about looking for bargains, these guys will come cheap.

I agree. The Sox could make a few moves soon w/ FA signings [Jaret Wright and Renteria] and let the market sort itself out later. The Sox have their SP set, and can wait for other teams to propose trades for their players [PK, maybe Garland, even Lee, etc]. Everyone knows PK would have to be traded, but KW can say publicly that he's content w/ his team as is. The other teams will be scrambling Power guys are hard to come by and the Sox are a team with it. For a team that misses out on a Delgado + Sexton, PK will have a lot of value. More so as Giambi's problems will boot him out of NY. Even offers for Lee could be heard, and taken up if it improves the Sox. The key is getting a few priorities done, and then looking for the final pieces through trades, non-tenders, etc. At least one and hopefully two things are done in the next week or so

If the Sox could get the two holes filled in Renteria and wright, they should be able to fill 2 holes via trade [the bullpen, C and Rf ] with some combination of prospects and PK. I wouldn't trade Garland at this point [unless he was moved as part of a pkg for an even better pitcher like Hudson] Any "big" trade would have to involve Lee. [seeing how .300 hitters don't exactly grow on trees, unless another solid .300 hitter came over in a deal, it's hard to see how lee is moved] It'll be interesting to see how Renteria will pan out. If Nomar gets $8 mill + incentives for 1 yr, he should come in under $10 mill a yr.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't have his contract voided. That's up the lawyers and the union. I do feel part of the pro players salary depends on them signing autographs, community involvement, ie "meeting the Public". Neagle prob. went too far in meeting his obligation Maybe baseball could come up with a decency clause that if violated, would result in players being hit with a big fine. Because incidents like this do give the team and baseball a bad PR hit. Whether it's worthy of Neagle being fired, prob. not. Too many owners would use incidents like this as an excuse to get rid of hurt/ crappy players. A star gets caught w/ his pants down and no one would void his contract.

I can't help but get the impression that some would find fault with the Sox no matter what they did. Sox too cheap? Sign Renteria for more than market value and they'd still find fault--"The sox still need to spend money elsewhere". It's like coming home with Cindy Crawford and some friends saying, "she's beautiful, don't get me wrong, but that mole on her face....". I know Wright isn't in the top tier of SP's, due to his health concerns. So people could pick that "signing" apart. But Renteria is the top SS available. I know it's all speculation on our parts. And Sox fans have good reason to be disappointed after these 4 yrs w/o the playoffs, and close to 90 yrs w/o a WS. Yet many of us don't realize how hard it is to put together a winning team that can compete with the Yanks and Red Sox w/o a payroll close to $100 million

True. But esp. a pro player who meets with the public a lot and plays a kid's game, the "crime" is worse.