michelangelosmonkey
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Posts posted by michelangelosmonkey
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I've mentioned this before but...what about Chris Sale? He's owed a lot of money by Boston...we should have a stock pile of money (please don't take us into the "JR is cheap" as he's had many top 5 payrolls when the team is good). He's been out for two years...he's only 32...could he be our Verlander? We get him at the trade deadline for three middling prospects (Stiever, Dahlquist, Jose Rodriguez) and give Boston payroll relief. When the playoffs come then we have Gio, Lynn, Sale and Keuchel or Cease? We don't worry about resigning Lynn and for 2022 we get a starting core of Gio, Sale, Cease, Keuchel and Kopech with Crochett building up to it.
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3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Let’s wait 10-12 starts into the season, the good ‘ol Hawk Harrelson 54 game, 1/3rd pole...
Its completely fair to be skeptical about Rodon and his ability to stay healthy...but I do still look at the Mike Minor comparison...some guys eventually get through the injury part and find their TOR stuff. Minor put up 14 WAR in three years after being sore arm bad at 26 and missing all of age 27 and 28. It would be such a good problem to have to have Rodon be great this year and a free agent next year.
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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:
Even if you added Rutherford/Adolfo/LuisGonz to that package, you’re limited to mostly rebuilding teams.
Personally, would prefer that now and getting some pen help so Kopech could start in the minors, but doesn’t seem very likely. Guess they really want him around Katz, TLR and a much more extensive MLB support system.
I don't hate the idea of Kopech and Vaughn in the big league camp for the two weeks or whatever it is they need to get an extra year. But I also think its not that risky to let them start in the majors as new collective bargaining agreement will probably tackle this gamesmanship. Honestly by allstar game SOME of our minor leaguers are going to take a step forward. If Lopez regains confidence and Mercedes is again hitting .950 and throwing out half the runners...ok they are both 28...but you throw in a Tatis, Jr lottery ticket and you could get an interesting something.
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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Other than Katz, what are the reasons for Lopez optimism?
With Musgrove, besides the advanced analytics, you have the motivation of any pitcher moving from the worst team in baseball to a Top 3 squad.
I'm not optimistic on Lopez...I don't really see a spot on the team for him. I was just laughing at an earlier comment about Lopez not being a major leaguer based on what he did today, while we were regretting not getting Musgrove based on what he did today. I think Musgrove is fine...I just didn't want to trade major assets for him and today Rodon looked much more dominating than Musgrove.
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Just now, caulfield12 said:
Current thoughts on Collins/Mercedes/Vaughn?
How has Madrigal looked today?
And is Gore at 94-97 mph still/again? Did Rodon throw the ball as well as his numbers would indicate?
Does anyone think they will trade Lopez instead? Or just start him in Charlotte as insurance with a regular rotation turn? Is his fastball crisper this time out?
Lots of questions, sorry...
1) How could they not keep Collins? Lefty hitting catcher that looks legit as a hitter.
2) Madrigal looked very good defensively and very slappy as a hitter.
3) Mercedes has a great arm for eliminating the opponents running game...does seem to drop third strikes and pass balls...and looks imposing as a hitter. I think he has an option left so have him catch full time at Charlotte and impress some other organization?
4) Rodon looked fantastic...lots of swing and miss stuff. Man if he can be what we thought he was going to be three years ago...lefty starter...I know, I know.
5) I like the idea of sending Lopez to Charlotte...the guy has ability if they can harness it enough...package him and Mercedes at all-Star break and you might get something for him.
MLB.tv is great.
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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:
I have a feeling we’re all going to feel real shitty at the All-Star break when we could of had Joe Musgrove and instead got a fat Yogurt Sanchez plus the buy-outs for Nate Jones & Welington Castillo paid for by the Rangers.
Which starting pitcher do you sit while Musgrove starts?? Cease, Rodon and Kopek have all looked better than I thought Musgrove looked today...and none would have cost trade assets. Lopez gives up 2 runs because of bad defense and we say he doesn't belong in the major leagues while Musgrove gives up 3 because of bad defense and we wish he was on our team. White Sox PTSD....this team looks really good.
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1 hour ago, greg775 said:
I wish the Sox would make room for Zack. First rounder, 10th overall pick. Now he's 26. If the scouts think he has it, he should play now. If he doesn't, then do the guy a favor and trade him for some more pitching or something. Don't see how this is debatable. He's a first rounder and he's "ready."
I've been a big supporter of Collins but the Sox sure are acting oddly with him...he's caught two games this spring??? I'm not sure what it means but in trying to read the tea leaves it seems they don't trust him to catch.
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On 3/12/2021 at 2:40 AM, Dominikk85 said:
Yermin and Vaughn have looked quite good so far in spring but are you concerned about the spring showing of some of the invited non mlb ready prospects?
Burger, sheets, Adolfo, Gonzalez and Rutherford have not done very well so far.
Granted those are not super important prospects for the Sox as the core is pretty much set and the future probably hinges more on the new Cuban hitters and the young pitchers than on those older second tier hitters but nonetheless it would be nice if one or two of them could step up.
Obviously it is also only about 10 PAs or so for each so stats don't really Say much at that point. As I have not seen much spring training does anyone of them look better than their stats and has maybe taken a step forward?
I've noticed the same thing but I also think this is such an unusual year versus past Spring Trainings. Most of those guys have not played in a competitive game in 18 months. A lost year must play havoc on their timing. I was quite confident in 2018 that between Adolfo/Lugo/Rutherford one would break out and be our starting RF today...then they all went and struggled in AA in 2019 (which is a big jump...and Birmingham hard place to hit) and lost 2020 to Covid and now we don't really think of them as interesting....this would have been so different with a full 2020...but they suffer from the inaction. I think until the all star break you can't really begin evaluating the Sox young talent.
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8 minutes ago, Vulture said:
Unlike WAR, dWAR is weighted against league average. So any positive number is in fact “good”
A career dWAR of 3 means over 11 years his average year was + 0.27 so OK, good in the narrowest sense of the word. His career "runs saved above average" over 11 years at C was a combined...one. That seems pretty much like an average catcher. And again I'm not bashing Mauer who is a certain Hall of Famer...I was merely saying a lefty hitting catcher that is passable defensively is worth a ton. Switch to Darren Daulton who was slightly worse defensively than Mauer and quite a bit worse offensively and still had a 6 year 18 WAR run.
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7 hours ago, Sambuca said:
Whatever you think Mauer’s career dWAR tells you about his defense behind the plate, you’re still comparing Zack Collins to Joe Mauer.
Just stop. You are being absurd.
So your counter argument is "shut up"? The argument was that a lefty hitting catcher that can put up an .850 OPS and be passable defensively is very valuable and I used Joe Mauer as an example...and embarrassingly used actual defensive stats showing he wasn't a very good defender. How about we say Darren Daulton. He's more like Collins than Mauer...I just thought Mauer was more familiar. DD had an elite batting eye, decent power and was not a great defensive catcher...and starting at age 28 put up an average of 3 WAR per year for 6 years. And for those that say Collins is a terrible hitter...1200 career minor league at bats with .840 OPS. 600 NCAA at bats with OPS 1.000. Career spring training OPS 1.000. Yes his first fifteen MLB games he was terrible...his last ten in 2019 he put up a .950 OPS. The skills of elite strike zone understanding and + Power play in the majors...and even with a low batting average could be an .800 OPS regular. I prefer taking that chance over the chance that 34 year old Jonathon Lucroy in the midst of a five year slump is the answer to some kind of question.
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1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:
Mauer was an excellent defender before he got those concussion issues that ruined his career. Don't think that can be compared to Collins.
He was never an "excellent" defender. He got his concussion in 2013. In 2012 he put up a -0.7 dWar. He put up 3 dWar total in the 9 years before his concussion. Gary Carter put up a 4 dWar one year. Molina put up 20 dWar in 10 years. He was a passable defender that was a great player because he was such a good hitter.
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56 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:
Only three of our regular starters have pitched: Lance Lynn, Gio and Reylo
11.2 innings pitched
3 hits
1 run
15 strikeouts.
Only four actual relief pitchers: Kopech, Crochet, Heuer and Marshall:
7 innings pitched
4 hits
0 runs
8 strikeouts.
So of the guys that matter they have pitched two complete games averaged 3.5 hits per game, .5 runs and 12 strikeouts. Stop worrying.
And just for fun (warning Cherry picking season)...the hitters that will likely be on the team and we should have some concern about. That means eliminating the Abreu's/Tim Anderson/Grandal/Jiminez group that are veterans that spring training really doesn't matter, the back ups that their hitting doesn't really matter Mendick/Leury/Engel and all the young guys that won't make the team...that leaves us with the guys that either are young unproven or like Eaton--old and some concern of fading skills. That group is Robert, Moncada, Vaughn, Collins (Sorry I think he's making the team), Madrigal, Eaton. Those six guys are slashing .300/.412/.471. Mostly the bad offensive results are a lot of the young that are not showing well (Adolfo) or that core of vets that honestly...why would they try. The guys we should care about are actually doing pretty well.
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Only three of our regular starters have pitched: Lance Lynn, Gio and Reylo
11.2 innings pitched
3 hits
1 run
15 strikeouts.
Only four actual relief pitchers: Kopech, Crochet, Heuer and Marshall:
7 innings pitched
4 hits
0 runs
8 strikeouts.
So of the guys that matter they have pitched two complete games averaged 3.5 hits per game, .5 runs and 12 strikeouts. Stop worrying.
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25 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:
1 win and 9 non wins. Last place here we come. Congrats in advance to the resurgent Royals.
2008 Detroit Lions...4-0 preseason, 0-16 regular season.
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4 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:
My prediction: Lucroy starts the season as the backup, Collins stays in extended spring training for extra work before the AAA season starts.
Bold prediction: the Rays trade for Yermin
IT seems to me if the Rays call up inquiring about a player you should probably re-evaluate his availability.
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12 minutes ago, Texsox said:
Ahh the days when there were clear choices in Sox message boards. We went from the "parents aren't home and we're in charge" upstart to the largest independent single team baseball fan site. Along the way some truly great content was created and is continuing to be created. Sometimes by assholes, sometimes by others. Lol
I was always the old guy, now I'm actually an old guy.
The ignore button isn't working. In a thread titled "I'm going to enjoy the White Sox this year" Ragah has taken over running around screaming how reasonable he is while throwing feces at everyone. Love the board Tex and all you and the other moderators do...and don't ban Ragah...the world is so much more interesting with crazy people around.
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Thanks for the tip...I've been thinking about The Athletic for a couple of years...this made me move.
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I didn't realize you could ignore someone. That's a nice feature and I suspect my Soxtalk time will be filled with much less idiocy.
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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
Well I will say it's difficult to gauge fact from strong personal opinions with him. He's known here as an insider but also known for strong personal opinions and stating those opinions as fact like he just did. He rarely phrases what he says as opinion like " I think this" or "I thank that".
I will say that if Grandal's early health issues are a sign of things to come , then whoever gets more playing time has to take advantage of it . Lucroy might not have much left in the tank either.
COVID or McCann could've played a part in the slow development of Collins but it also might have something to do with how they view Collins dedication. They won't move him because he does have valuable skills . With Grandal ailing and Lucroy's health always a question and a possible early season opening at DH Collins should get more chances this year.
Now if by some miracle Mercedes makes the team and Collins doesn't, that would be a pretty clear sign the Sox are sending Collins some kind of message. Unfortunately Mercedes could hit 8 HR's and throw out 8 runners, hit .450 this spring and he still wouldn't get a job on the 26 .
I have to admit that I really don't know how the evaluation process for a catcher works. It used to be PB's and WP's and runners thrown out...but I think that is clearly changed...and honestly the difference in passed balls between a good catcher and a bad one might be one extra passed ball a month....and WP and stolen bases have as much to do with the pitcher. Seems now it is framing...which just seems like a weird skill...its tricking the ump into calling something a strike when it's not. Wouldn't that disappear over time? Wouldn't the umps say...oh that's the guy with the high framing rate...I'm not giving in to that call! Still I suspect the real value of a catcher is calling a game...It's the fifth, Reylo is pitching in a tied game, two runners on, 3-2, you have a lefty hitter up and he's a low ball hitter. What do you tell the pitcher to throw? Or maybe that is all done from the dugout...seems like the pitcher controls the speed of the game so it would be easy enough for the catcher to get the sign from elsewhere. Honestly...if you have a lefty hitting catcher that can put up an .850 OPS and he's merely passable defensively isn't that better than having a great fielding no hit catcher? Joe Mauer who we all remember from up the road...had a CAREER dWAR of 3...and an offensive WAR of 52. I'd totally take Joe Mauer on this team. Final thought...listened to the White Sox Talk podcast with Jerry Naron...and the first guy he talked about after Grandal was Collins. Come on...it HAS to be Collins doesn't it?
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6 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:
Logical fallacies are objective, not subjective.
And your comment about Hendriks is ridiculous and shows you are engaging in them yourself as I have been outspoken about how much I like Hendriks and that the bullpen is the one thing I not concerned about this year.
If you really think I'm rooting for the Sox to lose then frankly you don't know shit about me and have learned nothing. Because you obviously aren't paying enough attention and to solidify my example you are going to just disappear instead of own it because you have to make some bullshit up just to make yourself right.
If the Sox prove my assertions wrong I will be happy to admit I was wrong. THAT is what I am rooting for.
You don't even actually have a grasp on my opinions because you are jumping to conclusions on them and not actually knowing them because you just lazily want to claim ALL my arguments are negative rather than actually absorb them individually.
So you sound like another person whose feathers I have ruffled enough to the point of (as per the usual for people who bash me) mischaracterizing my posts or grasping straws and then disappearing.
Of course arguing with someone isn't going to be "worth it" if you don't even know what the person's actual stance is because you assume it. I also never said I was smart. It doesn't take that much intelligence to simply point out something that is incorrect. But no one ever wants to admit they could be incorrect about anything. Heaven forbid. You're "ending the conversation" because you are wrong and you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't make up bullshit about me "rooting for blown saves."
OHMIGOD...your responses to everyone are "you are too stupid to follow my arguments" or "you are ignoring my obvious brilliance" or "your opinions are idiotic based on logic and reason". Then we get the insults about us being "childish" or "ridiculous". It's fine to have alternate opinions but your method of expressing them is SO condescending. I didn't start off by saying "you are too stupid to argue with"....I ended up there after dozens of assaults by you. I promised I wouldn't say that again and I won't. I just choose to not engage with you because honestly...you will bring nothing to the discussion. I have heard countless of your opinions as you comment on every posting and I never think " OH...a Ragah posting!!!! I can't wait to read what he thinks."
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17 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:
I agree. I like the angle that JM being good and COVID being both completely unexpected got in the way of Collins
I think random luck plays a big part in a teams development (and life). All the people that are mad about the White Sox 2010-2019 years...the left over World Series core was now all getting old...they bottomed out in 2013 where your realized Beckham and Vicideo were draft busts, Danks blew out his arm, Konerko, Alexi, Peavey, Dunn were nearing being done...team won 63 games and rebuild was needed...and then Boom...2014 you sign Abreu and he's rookie of the year, Sale suddenly looks like the best pitcher in baseball, Quintana who you found in the rubbish bin looks like a star, Eaton who you got for a bucket of balls puts up a 5 WAR and you have the 3rd pick in the draft...so instead of following a normal rebuild you are thrust into this go for it mode...even though the foundation is really in ruins (largely because of the Wilder scandal which in a sense is also random bad luck). So four pieces of really good luck (ABreu, Eaton, Sale, Quintana) came along at the worst time...but in the end they became the foundation for the real rebuild. I hope I'm right about Collins...only because it raises the ceiling of this team even higher if it is.
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16 minutes ago, Tony said:
This is will be my last post on the matter because it's dragging down the board and quite frankly you aren't worth the time.
The one thing you've never understood and most likely never will is the proper definition of what "truth" is. Truth is objective, where you see it as subjective. "Your truth" is simply your opinion. Your opinion on something doesn't make it true, however much you'd like it to be. What you are doing is offering an opinion. That's when someone has a viewpoint on something that may or not be based in fact, but they hold it to be true to themselves. People can have LOTS of opinions, and often times people debate those opinions. That's called a conversation. Are we learning anything yet? Still with me?
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. You're always going to be the way you are. The sad part is, as I described with another poster a few days ago....is you spend hours on this site, post after post either correcting people who don't share your same opinion, or you're complaining about how ownership didn't do what you wanted, how this team isn't going to be as good as people think, and just generally how unhappy you are. The saddest thing we've dealt with people like you on this board before. Many times. You're all the same. It's SO important for you to be right, you'll activity root for the "team you love" to fail so you can get in front of your computer and say "See, I told you so! I was right all along!" And when the team is going well, we either won't see you around or you'll drop in with "Yeah but it's a small sample size" or "We'll see if it lasts the whole season." because it just crushes you when the "truth and logic" you spewed all those months turned out to be nothing more than an uneducated opinion.
I'm fine ending the conversation because at the end of this....I'm excited the weather is changing and baseball is around the corner and the team I root for has one of the better rosters in baseball. I'm going to find a lot of enjoyment out of this season. And I'll know on the other end of the spectrum, you'll be hate-watching the White Sox, just rooting for a Liam Hendricks blown save so you can rush the computer and tell everyone how smart you are. I don't envy you. I feel bad for you.
Thanks Tony...that could not have been better stated.
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8 minutes ago, raBBit said:
Collins will hit in the MLB. Whether it is here or somewhere else.
That said, please find me someone who thinks he can catch in the MLB.
Having a lefty hitting catcher that can walk 100 times a year and hit 25 homers would be one of the most valuable assets in baseball....he wouldn't even have to be a good defensive catcher...just average. Its hard to get an exact feel on what the White Sox think of Collins. In 2018 they had a young, offensive catcher Omar Narvaez and signed Wellington Castillo...many thought they signed Castillo to help with the Manny Machado signing as they were friends. Zack was only 23...he played 74 games that year all at catcher and was the all-star selection for the Southern League. At the end of 2018...the young and interesting Narvaez (he put up a 2 WAR for Sox in 97 games at catcher at 26) was traded for Colome...which seemed to hint the White Sox thought they had a BETTER offense first catcher in the system. That off-season they signed a two year contract with a journeyman catcher, James McCann. In 2019 JM exploded out of the gate and was the all-star catcher, so he caught 106 games and they still had Wellington under contract so he still caught 50 games. Collins, 24, came up and caught 10 games in the pros and caught 50 games in AAA...also he played 21 games at first base for the first time...was that because they lost faith in him as a catcher...or wanted to add to his diversity as a player? In 2020 they signed Grandal...was that because they lost faith in Collins as a catcher or that they thought the team was near ready to compete, Grandal was affordable and a top 3 catcher in the league and 25 year old Collins wasn't ready to manage a staff of young pitchers? Why didn't they trade James McCann?? It's possible that teams saw McCann's second half slide in 2019 and just figured 2019 first half was an illusion and didn't offer anything for him. Why didn't they trade Collins...at that point he had just put up a .950 OPS as a young lefty catcher in AAA. Then 2020 with two great starting catchers they had Collins everyday in Schaumburg catching simulated games with the Sox top young pitchers....everyday for months. Doing nothing but catching under watchful eyes. So now it's 2021 and the Sox made no attempt to resign JM...so they must have a plan for back up catcher. I have written this before but I think this has been the Sox plan all along...it's just JM accidently being great and COVID screwed up the time line. Grandal catches 110 games and Collins catches 50 and backs up at 1b and backs up DH. He's only 26 and catching is a hard art to learn. As Grandal gets older they cut his number of games caught and increase Collins games caught. I've heard Catching is one of the hardest positions to learn...the White Sox have been grooming Collins to be everyday starter for the rest of the window. If you are looking for a comp...Ted Simmons (switch hitting but similar) was a high OBP, 20 homer per year, mediocre defensive catcher that had a 5 year stretch starting at 26 where he put up 25 WAR. Of course if they give the back up catcher job to Lucroy it will tell us 100% that they have no belief that Collins can catch....but what does "Can't catch" even mean? Narvaez was forced to catch 90 games because WC got caught with PEDS and he had seven errors, allowed 12 passed balls, and only threw out 24 percent of runners...and STILL put up near 2 WAR...good hitting catchers are valuable and good hitting lefty catchers more so.
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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:
Dude, go ahead and live in your fantasy land of praising corpses. Sox fans had enough with Corpse Ball under Manuel.
You post the same repetitive irrelevant tripe at least a dozen times equating other octogenarians who have absolutely nothing to do with the Sox hire.
Since early December, I haven’t posted much of anything regarding LaRussa in a non baseball context, beyond discussing the relevant Nightengale article last month noting Jerry’s omission of disclosing Tony’s DUI arrest from his “trusted family” during the hiring process, until responding to your absurd posts here.
The only error of judgment was to respond to someone “too stupid to argue with”. That won’t happen again.
Ah...so you ARE RagahRagah...that explains a lot.
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Players You Hope the Sox Try To Acquire (At Least Somewhat Realistic)
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Well yes...Sale would have to be on board. But why wouldn't he be? Seems like the Red Sox are in rebuilding mode. Sale got his WS ring and his payday from the Red Sox...but he had 7 years with the White Sox...he must have some good memories. And if he sees that he could come here and get two more rings??? Seems to make sense for Red Sox, White Sox and Sale...get it done.