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michelangelosmonkey last won the day on March 7 2021

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  1. But I would argue with "typical"...they spent a lot of money last year to try to assemble the best relief core in baseball. I think it's fair to argue the plan was stupid (relievers are notoriously up and down) or that in retrospect it didn't work but you can't say they didn't spend hard and try. They also gave big contracts to Keuchel who was top 5 CY Young his first year with us and Grandal who was amazing in 2021 and amazingly bad last year. We need to get past the PTSD of Tony Larussa and the 2022 season. Lot to be excited about here.
  2. Yes but the point, it seems to me, of being part of a fan chat site is to have fun with it. If Hi8is starts a topic "Aaron Judge speculation" I thought...oh that's a fun concept to chew over...and then the first 20 post are SOX SUCK... SOX DON'T SPEND MONEY...this will never happen. What an idiot for even suggesting it. There was zero fun out of the first 20 posts. I'm fully on board with you that It is much riskier to sign Judge today than Harper four years ago because of the ages. But I think this team is in a perfect position now to hit it hard and 2019 they were half a dozen parts away. And again...2022 Abreu+Keuchel = 2023 Judge.
  3. I mean yes...I appreciate not being part of the chorus of dunces. If you don't think the White Sox made really, really, really serious attempts at signing Machado and Wheeler I just can't help you. If you really think the White Sox signed Machado's brother in law and his best friend while Machado was contemplating which team to sign with only as a ploy to fool White Sox fans into false hope?? By all reports they offered Wheeler more money than anyone. In 2019 they tried finesse and money, in 2020 they tried brute force. Neither worked...players chose places they considered more glamorous. Congratulations on being part of the majority that hates their favorite team.
  4. Yes that's pedantic...no one thought that 2005 team would win anything. It seemed like a rebuild year so no reason to spend big on payroll...and then they won and they paid big money for 7 years to try to regain that magic. So my point remains...when they think they are in a window they spend big. As for wasting money...at least in that 2006-2015 period yes. I think they were misled by that lightning in a bottle team and wasted resources on old bad players to regain it. This team is SO much better than any of those teams.
  5. When did I say any of those things??? They were contenders and they spent big...80's 90's, 00's and tens. You can argue that we were poor at talent evaluation. I think with all the Hahn hate we ignore the fact that KW took over that 2000 team that was a young 95 win team and #1 farm system and left in 2013 a barren wasteland. As for the "big city" White Sox with an exciting young team (that played poorly) were 19th in attendance and 7th in payroll last year...and we slam the owner. Their TV and radio packages have been second rate as well. Honestly I think the Sox are idiots if they don't sign Judge. Chicago fans are front runners and will flood to GRF if the Sox are a hot topic. Adding Judge makes this lineup scary.
  6. Yes that's the fair complaint. But we did win a WS in that time...and spending big to try to repeat in a time when the team must have been banking money made sense. Swinging and missing in the Sale/Shields/Quintana/Abreu period was a muddled shot...Hahn took over in 2013 the last of the bigger payrolls...and honestly a team with four stars and a bunch of garbage (see Angels of the last few years) doesn't work. Hahn fairly quickly saw that and started the rebuild...I get the anger over the five year rebuild...and last year royally sucked...but most teams climbing the mountain have a year like that.
  7. Seriously...are you twelve years old? I lost the debate because all the evidence was on my side? 2019 was the year to spend big? That 2018 with the stocked rotation of Shields, injured Dylan Cease, Gio with the worst ERA in baseball, Dylan Covey and Reylo? The year after our outfield was Delmonico, Engel and Avisail? Matt Davidson our DH? Yoan was our 2b coming off a .700 OPS year with bad defense? Yolmer was our 3b? That team was no where near ready to cook and that's when you want to push all the chips in...not now when we one of the top bullpens in baseball, one of the top rotations in baseball and a potential all star at 7 positions. Signing Judge makes us a top three WS favorite. Signing Harper in 2019 would have made us a serious wild card contender.
  8. That's NOT what I'm saying...over and over again I have said that when they have a contention window for a number of years they have a top ten payroll. For forty years we have seen this pattern. You want to b**** about poor evaluation of major league talent or poor drafting...fine. But to whimper about the Sox not spending money is demonstrably wrong. Top ten payrolls in half of the last 16 years...2022, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2006 and by the way I suspect never in the top ten of attendance or tv revenues.
  9. Yes everyone agrees our contention winner is nearly over. Good grief...this board. 27 is when players hit their peak...there's zero chance that Vaughn, Robert, Sosa, Jiminez, Cease, Kopech, Yoan, Crochett will get better than they were in 2022. No reason to believe we will have a payroll above the 13th best. No reason to think Colas, Montgomery, Vera, Popeye, Schultz, Ramos will be any good.
  10. 2011 White Sox had top 5 payroll, 2010 it was 7. In every decade in JR's ownership we've had a top 5 payroll. Sorry if I get exasperated by the non-stop, every thread, people bitching about ownerships cheapness. I only do it because it's not true...but don't let me interfere with the b**** fest. I will stop trolling.
  11. That is a silly arbitrary number. Comparing 2020 contracts to 1980, 1990, 2000 contracts is meaningless. The question is will JR pay for a big contract and he has often...Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Albert Bell, Carlton Fisk, Julio Cruz. Top five payrolls in all of those eras...and we just freed up $35 million with Abreu and Keuchel. I'm not predicting it but to say speculation is impossible is just meatballery.
  12. Well self loathing is not the only option to a down year. Last year you had the following players miss 58 or more games Grandal, Tim Anderson, Robert, Jiminez and Moncado. AJ Pollock was second on the team in games played. Sheets, Harrison and Engel were 4, 5 and 6. Lynn, Bummer, Crochet, Kopech lost significant time. Grandal, Moncado and Keuchel had horrific years. TLR was the manager...and they still managed to finish at .500. This remains a team that has all the parts to win the WS...now go sign Judge...or at least dream about it until he signs with the Dodgers (who have won nearly 2/3 of their games for 6 years and have one championship to show for it).
  13. Soxtalk has gotten so cringy. Every single post/poster seems to hate everything about the team. There are no optimism threads and any thread of interesting speculation is soon buried under an avalanche of “funny” hate. A troll on Soxtalk is someone that says something positive…but here goes…trolling. As I have pointed out frequently…in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s when Sox were in a competitive window they were top five payroll. JR does not spend heavily in times of non-contention…which as a businessman makes sense. We are now clearly in a window of contention (yes last year was painful…look at Phillies of 2020/21). We spent $215 on payroll last year and top 5 was $240. This idea that we will only spend $180 is pretty much the same nonsense from a couple of years ago when we would never spend over $150. We have Keuchel $18.5 mill and Abreu $17 mill dropping off our books….they could basically take that money and sign Aaron Judge. Despite the reality that we have not signed any big fish it is clear that they were trying to land big fish with serious offers to Machado and Wheeler. Spotrac has us with $145 committed for 2023. So why not Aaron Judge? He’s got a career .980 OPS. He’s been a plus defender for most of his career. He’s an outfielder which is clearly our biggest need. He can even play a serviceable CF in a pinch ( as can Colas). An outfield of Judge/Colas/Robert could be elite offensively and defensively. It’s a single move that can restore faith, sell tickets and give JR a chance for that last ring. We have the budget, he fits a need lets blow up the world.
  14. Hardball Times aging curve. Abreu entering year 36 and Vaughn entering year 25. At 35/24 Abreu put up a .820 OPS down from previous year and forty points below his career average and Vaughn put up a .750 OPS up fifty points from age 23. And remember...Vaughn sat out his age 22 year because of Covid shutdown and his age 21 year he never played above A ball. He's aging and growing into his body while learning how to play in the major leagues and being forced into a new position. I would be surprised if Vaughn didn't put up a better OPS than Abreu this year. I love Abreu but I don't want to give 10% of the annual budget for the next three years to his 36-37-38 years. I also think that Vaughn will put up an .850 OPS at first base for the next five years. Without digging deeply into it I think the lost COVID year (minor leagues + Kopek) hurt the Sox window more than Tony LaRussa. So many young guys on the cusp that should have helped last year but lost a full year of development. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Screenshot-2015-12-09-at-8.54.11-PM-e1449712514782.png
  15. Who ranks them? My god you act as if these ranking agencies have some sort of magical predictive power. I remember that #1 ranked White Sox farm system in 2000. Hats off to all the smart guys. I really can't recall the guys having Semien and his 30 WAR by 30 being considered a can't miss prospect. 2014 he was listed behind Erik Johnson and Matt Davidson. Geniuses. Sox have a whole lot of exciting players under 27 and then another wave at 21 and younger...which seems sensible...to all except the "look at their rankings" crowd. As always...It takes me a few hours of writing on Soxtalk to remember why I never want to comment.
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