Chombi

I don't really even want to bother addressing most of your nonsense that you spew. I just wanted to address the last part. I made the thread for those who are into the idea of a firesale. Says so in the first post. I get that you can't read well, but try to figure that out next time before you come in bashing all of us who want a firesale. I have yet to see one decent post out of you. You are a mod here because you got booted elsewhere prior to 2003. So save your bs as if you are this die hard fan. You don't care about winning and probably know very little about the sport. Judging by your avy and other statements you've made, baseball is the furthest thing from your mind. Now if you want to threaten me because I called you out for your crap and lack of ability to comprehend a thread that specifically requests only those interested to participate, then fine keep doing it. You'll be the cyber-thug. Congrats. I bet that makes you feel better about your past, by all means, do so. You may think throwing more money at a bad team is the answer. I happen to think a firesale with a couple years in the dumps is the answer. If you can get mlb ready talent, it may only be a year and then you can try and sign some of those big name guys. We will have extra money to overpay and go from there. We aren't the Royals or Marlins, we are a big market with the ability to spend 100 mil+. So cutting it down and trying to talk two big names into coming here for a mil or 2 over their expected salary would be easy, imo. A hell of a lot easier then trying to go from a team who barely won 70 games, is aging, lost SP, and watched the teams who won 90 games +/- add on tremendous talent in trades or by bringing up players. If the Sox are going to commit to winning and spend the money, then I am all for it. They won't though. They havent and are too gunshy to deal anymore prospects for talent. i've said it in those Bedard threads and other places. If they will spend, and land big time players. I am all for no firesale. They won't. You have zero idea what you're talking about. Especially when it comes to spending. You are the same moron who thinks we are still trying to pay for 05' instead of the fact that we bumped payroll by 25 mil the next 2-3 seasons after we won because of the money we made. Not lost. This organization has been mediocre for too long. We aren't good enough and aren't bad enough consistently. Unless you are the Yankees, Boston, Mets and Cubs and willing to drop 200 mil if needed, you need those bad season every once and while to restock your system. We are just mediocre. This is our first top ten draft pick since Frank. It will help. We need to start paying the big money to those kind of picks instead of letting them slip away because of their agents and prices. You do that, and this system will start to get flooded with talent. We both are making unlikely points. You think a firesale is unlikely and stupid. You think we will and should scout better and all this bulls***, but it needs to happen. If we don't, and we don't spend elsewhere...then what? Maybe 3 more years of 100 mil to old veterans and 70 wins will wake your dumb ass up. Stop threatening to punk. If you don't like what I say, don't talk s*** to everyone else. Hypocrite. (You said I'd get a few more posts like that, so consider that 1 of 3 tough guy)

If the Sox show that kind of dedication to winning. I'd be all for it. We half-ass our trades and spending though. So if by some miracle we landed Bedard and Roberts. Hey, I'll be off the firesale wagon for a little while. Not long, but for at least the season.

Like some of those moves...Especially Jenks to the Reds. Idk about Paulie going to the Yankees though. They would have to deal Matsui to the padres and Melky to Minnesota if they'd have room for Kong and Giambi. If Buehrle and Thome both went to Seattle I'd hope Morrow comes back in it. Both guys could possibly command 4 from them. If Tejada netted 5. Our team would still have a couple decent players but you're right 75 is a stretch. I'd say 65-70 max. Unless guys like Crede and Fields broke out in your lineup. Nice job though. Good ideas. IAMSHACK...Didn't even see your's at first. Anyways, Buehrle doesnt get us Rasmus. Let alone Rasmus and more. Rasmus they didn't even want to deal for Bedard but bit. The only way they do it is if they truly want that hometown boy. Otherwise, I don't see it. Maybe straight up. Jenks45monster.....Dye can't land Kazmir. Dye can't land us more then one good prospect. two decnet ones I'd say. Kazmir would take a lot of young stuff to get and they don't need it. Same with MB. Ellsbury may be realistic but the way Boston has been playing with the Twins, I'd say it's not. Ellsbury to me is not worth Santana unless Bucholz is involved. Somehow it isn't working that way. Blows my mind. MB would need to go somewhere that'd he way his NTC, same with someone like Thome.

So let me get this straight. You'd rather finish in last with old guys and spend 100+ million, then finish in last for a year or two with a 50 mil or less payroll? All while developing talent? The Sox don't need to be in the dumps for years. They, unlike the Marlins, can go out immediately next offseason and sign some players. Or trade for them. No one says we need to be in the dumps for 5 years. We just need a new identity here. Next season there could be some big names to sign and use as your "star" over the next few years...guys like Santana, Harden, Sabathia, Texiera, Dunn, Sheets, Burrell, Crawford, Manny or Vlad even...Some of those guys have options but you never know. 05' is gone Tony. Let it go. We won. Let's remember for that instead of remember it for the team we didn't want to break up and had 5 losing seasons in a row trying to keep those old guys happy. Those old guys who will continue to financially handicap us and get nothing in return the longer we wait. And the Sox will have more fans then the Marlins do. We have had bad teams before and it was not much different then a crowd in 03'. I am sorry that we got used to the Cub coverted fans who filled the park just so they were able to go to the world series game in 05'. That's not realistic, that's not our team. And yea, i'll gladly take a trip in the dumps if it means for the next 5-10 years we are loaded with potentially good young talent that keeps coming through our system for cheap. We'll compete and won't have to worry about blowing the team up because they all won't be in their 32-40 range. You keep running your mouth about business and how a firesale isn't smart? The losing with 100+ mil is? You think a lot of people will turn out midseason when we have to make up 20 games just to be in it? There will be a ton of money left over doing it your way. We are going to lose. We know it already. Yet, you think there will be money? Meanwhile, the Cubs just keep spending and loading up. We cannot compete on any level with some of these teams and their spending. Still working off the world series? Did you really say that? What would they be working off? The payroll hasn't change, actually has gone up about 25 million so clearly you're wrong there. They made money off the world series pal. Or else we wouldn't be in the position we are today. If the Sox were going to keep spending, I'd say sure. You clearly haven't followed the Sox much or else you'd realize that the whole purpose of dealing Garland was because we couldn't afford him and still get to fill every other hole. KW has a budget, and he knows he'll get into trouble if he goes over it so he hides behind it. Maybe you didn't know that? And maybe you don't realize a firesale is much more likely then the Sox are to spend what we will need to compete. Which is a lot and at this point, is stupid. This is a rumor thread. You aren't the center of the universe my friend. Tough for you to gag on for a change I know. But there are a lot of people on here who think a firesale is the route and instead of having it brought up in every thread, I felt it'd be a nice outlet here while people can examine what kind of deals they think are available. So if you'd prefer otherwise, go make a "let's get ourselves more in debt and spend 150 mil and finish in last anyways" thread. Clearly you did well in your Finance classes.

I thought the same thing but after seeing what Tejada got. The day before the Mitchell thing. I was shocked. We can get some good pieces. Especially with how desperate teams are looking to be to compete.

What a deal for Baltimore IMO. I am sorry but if Tejada can pull that kind of return, idk how some of our guys can't bring home better returns as well. I've wanted Troy Patton for a while. I wonder if Baltimore would deal him.

That is the point of the firesale. Our organization may be in a pathetic state but we do have veteran tools to accomplish a very good one. Not quite a great one since we don't have a Miggy, Johan or Bedard but we have a lot of guys who can land One or two quality guys, if not one 5 star guy. Don't worry bout doing all of them. I didn't. They will all gradually be touched on if this works itself out. Just small contributions here and there and we can see where it goes. Maybe decide towards the end of the thread what ideas we liked best and vote on them or something.

You know. I was reading something on rotoworld.com. Take what you want from Matthew Pouliot but he had a Crede deal that left me stumbling for the launch button. It was Crede and Mac for Andre Ethier. Granted this was from about a month ago and idk what weed he had but if that is possible...please do it. I found it in his trade profiles and predictions thread. I used the link in the "Trade Winds" section for a thread I started of playing the GM game.

I hope this doesn't bring about a lot of anger from fans on here who don't support the firesale but I think the Front Office has to be at worst discussing it or addressing it. They would be insane not to be so why can't we? I made this thread because I think we are approaching a sale. If we aren't, it will be something for those of us who think we should explore one. KW is in control so whatever you think we can get, subtract about a prospect or so in talent. So try and keep it realistic and moves that make sense on both ends. It's late. I have finals and I needed a break like this to calm me. I don't think we really have any guys who can land us a Hughes, Bruce or Maybin so we will try and keep those to a minimum. Our best bet here is to look at teams who have been rumored to be in many deals and examine some of their prospects they'd be willing to deal or guys we have high hopes on. You can do this by picking a Sox player and listing possible moves...Similar to http://rotoworld.com/content/features/colu...articleid=29505 or you can do it your own way. I guess I'll start and throw out Paulie. Paulie to me has an injury concern, aging bat but still a very good one and a good contract for his production. We've heard the Anahiem rumors and I don't know if Kotchman can be had for him. Maybe they are that desperate for power but Kotchman's value is near Konerko's in my eyes. I think it has to be prospects. Kong to Angels for Sean Rodriguez, Jordan Walden and Reggie Willits. I think he may be able to get more but like I said, it's kenny. Kong to Mariners for Balentin and Morrow. Is it too much? I thought we could get more. Especially if they can move Sexson and if we sweeten the deal. to Texas for Eric Hurley, Kasey Kiker and Max Ram or Teagarden...Big package. May be too much but they have a lot of talent on that farm and may be willing to part with it for a vet bat like Paulie. Idk that's what I have tonight. I didn't want to go overboard on the first post and set a bad tone. Hopefully this will call some nerves and get us thinking a little.

I'd like to say it would lighten things up around here a little. I dont know if it wouldn't. We'd tear KW apart if he made bad moves, which he probably will. I am not sure if I am comfortable with KW having his hands on the rebuilding process. I'd give him one big move to start and see how it looks. If he makes a poor choice, then I'd seriously consider letting Hahn takeover. It'd be bad if he messes this up any further then he already has. Promote him for a job well done in 05'. Let him be an advisor and have say in deals because I feel he is still somewhat respected around the league but not a decisive say. This offseason could turn out to be a lot of fun if they go that route. I'd wait til after X-mas so you don't spoil holiday's for some players. There is a long time until the season starts. I am sure we will all analyze the moves and have our problems but at least they're moves. At least we know we are freeing up salary and adding a lot of young talent to our farm. Talent that could help us on their own by being a part of the team, or by netting a superstar when we are ready to compete. I have a nice thought in my head but I don't want to turn this into a rumor section. It's a nice starting point with Paulie and an AL West team (not who you think) and I bet it would nab us a nice return.

I certainly hope not, nor do I think that is entirely the case. Right now Detroit is the "sexy" thing because they made the biggest noise. A team who was in the WS two years ago and has added some nice talent. They just have "it" going for them so far this offseason. For Cleveland, I expect a slightly worse season out of their 1-2 guys but am hoping Sizemore finally reaches that MVP level they always throw at him. Cleveland could very well win the division and I think that is the point in some cases. Sox aren't better than the 2nd best team from last year who just got a whole lot better so how can we compete? I know when I have discussed the Tiger's it's viewing them as the 2nd best team in our division but that they have gotten better. To me, you can't be first if you aren't better then the 2nd place team. The Tigers obviously need to prove they are better than Cleveland. If they are, then the Sox still aren't better than either team and next season we will be comparing ourselves to Cleveland if they make a big splash (which they will). Let's face it. KW needs to just admit we will not contend. It will be better for us all. We will struggle to compete with the Royals, and unless there is some miracle that goes our way we have zero chance at a title or being "contenders". I say 5% chance that we are a .500+ team. I'd be completely shocked if we were within 10 games just simply out of how tough our division is.

haha seriously. I went to Soxfest the year we won it. Gift for Xmas. Never saw a croud like that. Just was crazy. I am hoping this year it is similar only the mood will be anger. Should be a fun time.

Nice to see for Tad. Love the guy. Hope for the best there.

Fair enough. I guess by already having my own opinions on Linebrink and reading that whole article I didn't really pay attention to the point you were getting at in just that quote. Thats why I wasn't sure what you were getting at. Works for me though if you're only objecting to that quote in itself, if it's to whether Linebrink was a potential bad signing, I may disagree with you on that.

Could be. I'd like to hope KW hasn't been running his mouth because he has spent several days with the whole organization in meetings trying to decide if it's time to firesale or not. Preferably firesale. If he isn't doing that then idk where he is been. Probably hiding from all of us who have been calling for his head.

Don't know where the shut down pen came from? Linebrink is hardly that. Trends are downward spiral as was pointed out in the link I posted. I don't even think Linebrink is necessarily an upgrade other then he has shown dominance elsewhere. Other guys have done the same. Mac was a pretty solid closer and he didn't exactly pan out in our pen. Bullpen is too hard to judge and too risky to deal with as we did.

Yup. Emphasis please on "moving the vets"

Not quite sure what you're getting at there. Maybe his splits over those years, which aren't bad at all. If that's the case, so be it. Otherwise, his trends aren't exactly good and his last 30+ games last season he got pretty touched up. Something to think about before you say the guy had no research and false claims.

I keep seeing stuff about how Cabrera + Linebrink = Garland from a money standpoint. True. Now I was reading this at the same time so I thought I'd post it. Great article on Hardballtimes.com about why and how teams keep overpaying for relief. It's from last week. I wanted to post the part about Linebrink and the Sox but just click the link. It's easier and won't totally interfere with the thread. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...ddle-relievers/

I love how the article is about how Jenks and Thome suggest everyone just worries about their own jobs. Not soon after, you read Jenks talking about dealing for Bay. Cracks me up. And don't deal for Bay unless it comes real cheap.

Hahaha indeed. I couldn't stand it this season. The Packers are who I root for in the NFL and I was willing to take a defeat at the hands of the Bears as long as the Cubs were eliminated by kickoff that Sunday. Sure enough, they were. I take full credit for the Cubs sweep and Bears win because of the accord I struck with Big Guns upstairs. You know. As Sox fans, I would love to see them keep signing guys and losing. It's funny. It's what is apart of the Sox-Cubs rivalry. Trouble is this. We can't fault them anymore for how they've been handling business. They have built a pretty good farm. Whether it's hype or not, at least there is percieved value there. Value that may help them obtain other talent this offseason. If they are legit prospects for a change, then more power to them. They also are willing to spend money. Lots of it. I could only aspire to have similar qualities. I wouldn't sacrifice certain things to get there though. Things like having US Cellular turn into a Wrigley. No thanks, I'd rather not. Maybe, just maybe, our owner and gm will live up to their words of it being a new day in Chicago. They said it would be different after we won the World Series but the only real pro-active team is looking like the Cubs. Let's hope we get back to that strategy of becoming the big team of the town and put a winning product on the field.

Not a surprise to see him as a Cub. Seemed lately it was all Cubs or Padres. 4 years at 50 was what I heard this week. Let's see if it held up.

I couldn't find one that had laughing.

If I knew that signing Bonds has this many supporters then it should've been discussed and accomplished already. Obviously, there is a reason why it isn't. The Sox will sell more tickets. I am not sure how the fans who have previously been on the hatred side of the fence would treat him. I'd be happy from a childhood boyish dream standpoint. Similar to one for Griffey. If you're ok with the rest of our team having to deal with the questions and Bonds talk. Guys who haven't signed up for that and don't really deserve it, then sure. If you like being the team who will have games stopped because of needles thrown on the field. Maybe you just prefer being the goat who took Bonds instead of a team that should be rebuilding and be a great story on other fronts? Tough call to me. I have been a Bonds supporter for a while but it's no secret most people are very against Bonds. We'd definately be venturing into a territory we know nothing about. It's winning at all costs. That kind of thing. You think the media won't point out the "great example we are for kids" by signing the most notorious figure associated with steroids? I dont know about that. Bonds was celebrated in San Fran because they stuck with their guy. I respected that. They let him go this year. To me that says more then just we want to rebuild. As you can tell, they haven't done much of it so far. People didn't hate the Giants because he was there prior to anything like this. We know the nature of the beast and still sign him? I don't know if we will be treated the same and I don't know if KW has that kind of card up his sleeve. Winning isn't necessarily all good PR either. Emphasis on ALL good PR. Everytime the Yankees buy a WS. See the Cardinals just a couple years ago. Everyone pointed to them as how anything can happen in the playoffs. Sure, that is good stuff. Most people in cities with contenders though thought it was a joke to have a team with 83 wins even be allowed in the playoffs. Even the year we won. Unfortunately, we were known for almost choking away a record lead. We were known to have the crazy play with AJ. All kinds of negative things to go with positive. It's natural. Adding Bonds to the mix would be unnatural because it would just show what is wrong with everything in sports. That said, if you feel comfortable with all that stuff. Sign him up. I'll get the Bonds white and black pinstripes ready.

No worse? Let's see...Bond's was hated more prior to steroids then Sosa was post-steroids. You're picking out other meaningless players. Bond's, for whatever reason, gets a lot more flack. They say because of how he was a dick for so many years but whatever. The fact remains, he is hated much more then any of those guys. And he broke records that baseball historians adore. Comparing him with anyone is impossible. Winning is a good PR move. You're assuming we win and you're assuming Bonds is the reason or a factor in that. If it is anything less, then it isn't. I am glad you like to lighten the mood here when it comes to the team.