DaTank

My reasoning for choosing Quentin for Carter as the worst is because that being injured that early in a career can really take a toll on Quentin, both mentally, and physically. Tommy John surgery on his throwing arm in 03', which was supposed to be his first season and he sat out the year, and also a partially torn left labrum (shoulder). Chris Carter really reminds me of Ryan Howard. Even though I liked the Swisher deal the best, I have a few problems with it. I would have preferred the Sox getting somebody with better defense, but I think Swish will smash 30-40 homers this year coming to one of the best hitters parks in the AL. The other problem I had was that Kenny got milked for our top 3 prospects. IMO thats the type of deal the Sox could have gotten an ELITE guy for. But Swish is also signed on a good deal.

Personally, my worst was trading Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin. I just don't think Quentin will pan out as many think he will, and I think Carter is going to be a monster. And my best was trading for Swisher. How about you guys?

Horrible trade. This deal no leaves us with no farm at all. We didn't need another power hitter who strikes out a ton, we have that in Thome. And he only has a .251 BA. But when Kong gets older and DH's and Thome retires, Swisher can play 1st since he is versatile.

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Dec 28, 2007 -> 09:24 AM) here's the question for 2008.... does josh fields= joe crede? does josh fields + whatever we receive in trade for Joe Crede= Joe Crede In 07' Fields had 23 homers in just 100 games. Also Fields had 67 RBI's and a .244 BA in 07'. In 06' Crede had 30 homers in the 150 games he played in. Crede also had 94 RBI's and a .283 in 06'. When you compare the stats Fields looks like a better power hitter, but Crede is a better producer overall as in BA and possibly RBI's and obviously defensively at 3rd. But I say let Fields season a little bit and get used to the Major League pitching and he can probably become an all around better hitter then Crede. Trade Crede and/or prospect for either an outfielder, starting pitcher, a prospect, or young, cheap reliever.

QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Dec 24, 2007 -> 12:03 AM) Just like several others have said, he won us a title, that is something that nobody had been able to do in Chicago (both sides) for the previous 90 years so I'll give him a grace period, he has earned the right to a couple more years to get the team back in order. If he can't do it by 2009, then I think its time to move on He didn't really do it. It was luck. Look at the roster. It had no amazing talent. Every guy just played with good clubhouse chemistry in 05'. He should be fired pronto.

Kei Igawa is a bust. His expectations were only a small level under Matsuzaka and the Yanks already want to get rid of him.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:36 PM) Aside form Kaz Matsui how many Japanese star position players have been disappointments in the United States? Guys like So Taguchi and TaYoshi Shinjo were never all that good in Japan, they pretty much lived up to expectations in the US. Lived up to expectacions yes, became superstars, no. I just think that he won't live up to this superstar attention he is receiving.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:29 PM) Your body maxes out at 26? I really don't think that is true. Can you please post a link that compares this guy to Omar Infante? I would really like to read it. I have read a lot of good things about this player and I like it. Fukudome is coming off of surgery on his throwing elbow and he missed half of the 2007 season. He has been compared to Jacque Jones - average all around except for defense where he had to be moved to RF because he couldn't play SS or 3B. I am hardly sold on the guy and think the Cubs drastically overpaid for him. I for one am glad the White Sox didn't get him. There is no way he would have been a good CFer for the White Sox. He basically said that by wanting to play RF instead. Agreed about Fukudome. He was overpaid but at least 8 mil. IMO. And in the end most Japanese players are no more than decent in the Big Leagues, with the exceptions of Ichiro and Hideki Matsui.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:10 PM) Only cheaper, more athletic, and younger. May or may not be younger. We really will never know. But he is insanely cheaper and more athletic.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:04 PM) when the official website of the chicago white sox says "his age is LISTED as 26" then you know he is really probably close to 30 years old. 26 sounds like a perfect age...a little too perfect. still a nice signing tho. To add on to your post this is a low-risk and can be a very high-reward type signing. I like it.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 02:09 PM) Why will Joe "most likely" come back 100%? The back is the worst injury to have as a hitter. Joe's health is anything from guaranteed especially if we are talking about a full season here. Personally, I have a problem believing Joe will play more than 120 games next season. It's too bad, but Joe just doesn't have enough clout on the trade market to bring in anything of real value at this time. Where do you see 100%? I just said healthy. Most likely healthy enough to play in a Major League game again in his lifetime. I wish you could just wait this one out until mid season and trade then but, his value can go even lower by then, by what you mentioned if he sits out a lot.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:57 PM) Andrew Miller and Clayton Kershaw are southpaw aces. Gio Gonzalez is not close to them. Gio will never be an "ace." He'll likely settle in as a #3 SP. Prospects aren't rated merely on ceiling. Gio being #24 doesn't mean he has a higher ceiling than the number #25 rated prospect or the #100 rated prospect. He's just a better bet to reach his ceiling. Joe Crede is coming off major back surgery. He's missed almost a full season and close to 7 months of baseball activities. Turn it around. Would you want to trade Fields (who's not even on Kemp's level) for an injury riddled CF who's a FA after this next season and a B grade prospect? I know I would not. As I noted earlier I realize Joe is coming off of major back surgery. If he comes back healthy which he most likely will he will not be the same but he won't go to the dumps. I see him putting up lesser numbers but still major league numbers. I would like Joe to be part of a deal for some starting pitcher. Keep Fields IMO

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) You're overrating both Sox players. I'm not the one who ranks the prospects. I am not the one who decides that south paws are special and valuable. Gio is ranked 24th not by me, but by professionals. I personally don't think he should be that high. But since he is why not use it well. And how can you overrate Crede's real life numbers? He should have won 3 Gold Gloves by now and can hit 25-30 homers per year. He hit 22 in 05' and 30 in 06'. Explain how I am overrating them IYO.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:43 AM) But A) he won't be playing for at least half of the season. It doesn't matter what he's shown us. He's not on the team. And B- having major surgery on his pitching shoulder does change what he has already shown us. He may not be able to pitch like he did in the past. He had major surgery.....on his pitching shoulder. How does having surgery change the past? My point is that he was great. Never even mentioned that having surgery on his pitching shoulder will not affect him. It almost 90% will affect him.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) Neither player is close to the player Kemp is and never will be. Crede's trade value is very low. If KW could have gotten anything close to a player like Kemp using Crede, Joe would already be gone. A #24 ranked south paw starting pitching prospect and a 3rd baseman who can hit .285 with 25-30 HR's and around a .980 fielding % for this guy even though he is the top Dodger prospect. South paw studs don't come walking into view everyday. Certainly Gio has the hype of becoming a south paw ace.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:13 PM) You just finished an explanation on a deal being laughed at then propose Crede and a B+ prospect for Kemp? Not at all. The only young guys they would get rid of would be Loney or Kemp and no way they're getting rid of Russel Martin or Billingsley. A healthy Crede (which is expected) and a south paw #24 prospect in Gio actually makes sense. Lefties are a ton more valuable then right handed pitchers.

QUOTE(2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 11:27 PM) i like that idea too, actually even more so then what i had originally....Votto is unproven at the mlb level and loney looks like he can be a flat out beast in this league for many years. id go as far as trying (key word trying) for a PK, Ryan Sweeney and Gio for Loney and Billingsley (i know im gonna ge flamed for saying that but come on now its not that bad a deal) as far as quentin goes i think you give him to the trading deadline to perform then you consider trading him The deal you brought up with PK probably would be laughed at. It would be awesome but theres no way they do that trade. If you think about it PK for Loney and then Sweeney and Gio for Billingsley. That would be laughed at. If they wanted to do that deal itd have to be a Chris Young type outfielder in place of Ryan Sweeney with Gio. I wouldn't mind a Crede + mid to top level prospect for Kemp.

QUOTE(2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 06:15 PM) as said in another thread here i am about to have a lil fun playing the sox gm.... first trade Buehrle to the reds for Joey Votto, Josh Hamilton, and Johnny Cueto. PK to the Giants for Lincecum or Cain trade crede to the brewers for Carlos Villanueva (brew crew have a ton of mlb ready starting pitchers, this move can also allow them to move Braun to the OF) trade uribe to whichever team offers the best young reliever trade dye and spects for carlos gomez and joe smith that gives you Vaz Lincecum/cain Danks Vilanueva Cueto/count/floyd/DLS/Gio (can you imagine a few years from now lincecum/danks/cueto/dls/gio) C AJ 1b Votto 2b Richar SS OC 3b fields LF Quentin CF Hamilton RF Gomez DH Thome let thome and OC walk after this year and you should have a ton of money to buy a couple top tier free agents and if everyone lives up to potential then next year you should have yourself a good team for awhile. I like everything on here except Quentin. IMO he won't ever get back in the right direction. But really everything else on this lineup is awesome. If the Reds would include Bailey instead of Votto I would be fine with that and then trading PK to the Dodgers for Loney + prospect. Wow you can only dream...

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 11:04 PM) Minnesota? Definately overlooked the fact that they've got guys like Juan Rincon, Dennys Rayes, along with Joe Nathan to form an an above average pen. Unless Joe Nathan gets traded which is unlikely this is a solid pen. I don't completely take back what I said about Cleveland though. With Rafael Betancout, a decent Borowski and adding Kobayashi out of Japan probably won't hurt their pen.

QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) The point was 'one of the worst bullpens in baseball'. 11th is not good. It is not in the 'middle of the pack'. If you want a real perspective on this... go to one of the Tigers sites and read what they think of their bullpen. Without Zumaya? The answer is "SUCKS". I never said that they were good without Zumaya. And with being so close to 8th, if they were 8th, they would be a middle of the pack bullpen.

QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) The Sox relievers as a team were 12th in the AL in 2007. The Tigers? 11th. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...ng&type=reg With the Sox having 1.10 point more ERA then Detroit. And Detroit only being .13 away from being number 8 on that list.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 09:06 PM) I would call them below average because; 1 - Zumaya out for half the season obviously and he's their most dominant reliever 2 - Jones would be one of the bottom 5 closers in baseball. He's on a level with Borowski. 3 - Rodney got hit hard at times last season IIRC. And other than those 3, who else do they have? Jason Grilli? Not much else there that I can remember off the top of my head. I wouldn't call Jones a "proven" guy, in terms of yes he has over 300 saves, but recently his ERA has not been good, especially at a pitchers park. Still, they shouldn't be called one of the worst bullpens in all of baseball. They've got the second best bullpen in our division next to Cleveland. And IMO they have a middle rank bullpen in all of baseball, with a healthy Zumaya of course.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 08:31 PM) You do know Zumaya is out for 1/2 the season right? Yes i do. But that doesn't change what he has already shown us.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) The Tigers gave away too much pitching in Jurrjens and Miller. Don't get me wrong, I'm very envious of the Tigers and their expectations next year...but they'll wish they had one of those guys when they find out that D-Train can't get anyone out. Not to mention their bullpen is one of the worst in baseball. I expect big things from the Tigers next year, but their potential "Achilles Heel" is obvious. The thing that stands out to me here is that "their bullpen is of the worst in baseball. How do you figure that? Joel Zumaya, 23 and already has proven to be top talent throwing over 100MPH quite often. Todd Jones, 39, their closer, a member of the 300 save club, and yes I realize he is aging and has had an up and down career but you can't really call this guy "bad" compared to some relievers we have. Fransisco Rodney, 30, set-up man, yes he had Tommy John surgery after the 03' campaign, but with a mid-90's fastball and a devastating change-up, this guy is able to dazzle hitters. So really you cannot call this bullpen bad, at all compared to ours. We have 1 trusty bullpen guy in closer Bobby Jenks. They have 3 proven guys.

QUOTE(TheKillerB's @ Dec 15, 2007 -> 02:39 PM) Why go for Tyner when Freel can be had? Freel can be had, in a trade. Tyner can be had, as a free agent. Why trade for Freel when we won't do anything this year anyway. Let Richar develop.