[NBA Offseason Thread]

So I was looking to see who the Bulls could add to the SG spot next season, and I found out that the league is really short of good shooting guards at the moment. After Wade, Kobe, Roy, Johnson and maybe Manu who you can call perennial all stars, the list of consistent performers are short and weak. Here are the top 10 players in PER last season.

 

There are only 19 players who registered 15.00 or better PER last season, which is the placement of an average player, that is the lowest since the establishment of PER in 2002. and number 6 Beaubois is really a point guard who plays 12 minutes a game.

 

1 Dwyane Wade, MIA 77 36.3 .562 19.5 9.8 33.2 4.5 11.1 7.9 28.10 733.4 24.4

2 Manu Ginobili, SAS 75 28.7 .584 23.4 9.7 25.2 3.8 11.6 7.7 22.54 386.5 12.9

3 Kobe Bryant, LAL 73 38.8 .545 15.2 9.7 30.5 3.1 12.2 7.7 21.95 484.3 16.1

4 Brandon Roy, POR 65 37.2 .568 18.3 7.7 25.5 3.7 10.9 7.3 21.36 392.2 13.1

5 Joe Johnson, ATL 76 38.0 .538 18.3 7.2 25.3 3.0 11.4 7.1 19.33 380.1 12.7

6 Beaubois, DAL 56 12.5 .617 16.4 12.0 23.0 2.0 10.7 6.4 18.59 81.4 2.7

7 Jamal Crawford, ATL 79 31.1 .573 14.7 8.5 24.4 1.6 8.0 4.8 18.50 282.8 9.4

8 Andre Iguodala, PHI 82 38.9 .535 23.6 10.9 21.4 3.0 16.8 9.8 17.82 348.8 11.6

9 Marcus Thornton, 73 25.6 .550 9.9 6.6 23.0 4.4 8.9 6.6 17.50 187.3 6.2

10 Vince Carter, ORL 75 30.8 .541 15.8 7.1 23.3 1.7 12.6 7.3 17.11 227.9 7.6

 

A lot of people on this list are closing in on 30 years old if not over, so we are witnessing the decline of this position the downfall of former all stars T-mac, iverson, Allen, Carter, Michael Redd, Finley, and Stackhouse without any young and prominent shooting guard coming into the league.

 

the death of the midrange game, the post game, the lack of good power forwards and shooting guards. Just another reason why the NBA is no longer what it used to be.

 

that, plus three douchebags getting together before free agency starts to decide that they are playing together next season, that really killed the league and it's becoming a joke more and more

[NBA Offseason Thread]

So I was looking to see who the Bulls could add to the SG spot next season, and I found out that the league is really short of good shooting guards at the moment. After Wade, Kobe, Roy, Johnson and maybe Manu who you can call perennial all stars, the list of consistent performers are short and weak. Here are the top 10 players in PER last season.

 

There are only 19 players who registered 15.00 or better PER last season, which is the placement of an average player, that is the lowest since the establishment of PER in 2002. and number 6 Beaubois is really a point guard who plays 12 minutes a game.

 

1 Dwyane Wade, MIA 77 36.3 .562 19.5 9.8 33.2 4.5 11.1 7.9 28.10 733.4 24.4

2 Manu Ginobili, SAS 75 28.7 .584 23.4 9.7 25.2 3.8 11.6 7.7 22.54 386.5 12.9

3 Kobe Bryant, LAL 73 38.8 .545 15.2 9.7 30.5 3.1 12.2 7.7 21.95 484.3 16.1

4 Brandon Roy, POR 65 37.2 .568 18.3 7.7 25.5 3.7 10.9 7.3 21.36 392.2 13.1

5 Joe Johnson, ATL 76 38.0 .538 18.3 7.2 25.3 3.0 11.4 7.1 19.33 380.1 12.7

6 Beaubois, DAL 56 12.5 .617 16.4 12.0 23.0 2.0 10.7 6.4 18.59 81.4 2.7

7 Jamal Crawford, ATL 79 31.1 .573 14.7 8.5 24.4 1.6 8.0 4.8 18.50 282.8 9.4

8 Andre Iguodala, PHI 82 38.9 .535 23.6 10.9 21.4 3.0 16.8 9.8 17.82 348.8 11.6

9 Marcus Thornton, 73 25.6 .550 9.9 6.6 23.0 4.4 8.9 6.6 17.50 187.3 6.2

10 Vince Carter, ORL 75 30.8 .541 15.8 7.1 23.3 1.7 12.6 7.3 17.11 227.9 7.6

 

A lot of people on this list are closing in on 30 years old if not over, so we are witnessing the decline of this position the downfall of former all stars T-mac, iverson, Allen, Carter, Michael Redd, Finley, and Stackhouse without any young and prominent shooting guard coming into the league.

 

the death of the midrange game, the post game, the lack of good power forwards and shooting guards. Just another reason why the NBA is no longer what it used to be.

 

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Mario Chalmers doesn't count as a PG?

 

chalmers will be there, but he won't get any handles, nor any other starting PG for that matter. Since lebron and wade aren't terrific three point shooters, why not put a sharp shooter in the starting 5 if that is the case. chalmers is only decent at best.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

when was the last time a team features a SG and a SF who can average 5 assists per game? I dont think the heats would need a starting point guard next season, they would need a three point shooter. Probably like Kyle Korver or JJ Reddick. They will probably operate without a starting point guard next year.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Last post on this...

 

Bosh is WAY better at the power forward spot than Deng. Vinny played Deng at the 4 a fair amount, and it didn't go so well. Bosh is not a great defender, but you can do a lot worse than 10 boards and a block from your PF spot, and it's not just because he plays at the 4.

 

I don't really care if he's a "traditional power forward" since those barely exist anymore. He's plenty effective in that role.

 

The raptors felt the same way you did, and end up finishing last in the league in defense. If you have a big who can't defend, you are forced have another good defensive big man, which the raptors didn't. If they had a better than defensive PF, and put bosh at SF instead of turk, they may fare a lot better on defense, while virtually still getting the same production from bosh.

 

I agree Bosh is a better PF than Deng. He is more talented thus makes more money.

 

And lastly, I am gladly you felt the same way I did that Bosh is not a traditional big man and is more of a traditional small forward than anything.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

sounds like ESPN is fearing their ratings weren't going to be crazy tonight and sent one of their lap dogs to stir some interest

 

 

the thing is, if ESPN really wants to boost their rating, why do they kill all the mystery by letting the world know where he stands now? it really kills a lot of interest right? especially in Chicago and new york.

 

Though, if like 2 hours before the show starts, they report that Lebron had a change of heart and is leaning towards Chicago or new york, it would get really interesting and boost their ratings dramatically.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the guy averaging 20-9 on his career while shooting 49% from the floor is a big man. How many small forwards that aren't named Larry Bird or Elgin Baylor have ever put up a line like that? Maybe a few other combo forwards like Marion or Wallace, but they both play/played inside a lot.

 

He doesn't shoot 3's, he doesn't defend perimeter players (and probably shouldn't outside of a switch on a pick and roll), he starts his drives from the high post (not at the top of the arc or on the wings like a perimeter player), well over 40% of his attempts come in the basket area, which you can only say about like 4 perimeter players (all of which have no shooting ability), and he draws 8 FT's a game which is generally reserved for big men or really, really good penetrators (which he's not).

 

About the only thing in the small forward column is that he's a decent ball-handler for his size and he can shoot mid-range jumpers, but you can say that about a lot of big men. Your team is in deep s*** if he's your starting SF, but he's one of the top-10 big men in the league at PF.

 

 

there is a new breed of combo forwards nowadays, and bosh is one of them, he can play the big man, but he is really a small forward.

 

you listing all those stats is nice, but he is putting up those big man stats i.e. good rebounding and close shots %, only because he plays the power forward. There is no denying that he also have the attributes of a small forward (ie midrange game, range out to 3, good slasher, no strength, not a good post defender), and his "little man skills" are better than his big man skills, which really makes him a combo forward playing the 4. Hell, if you throw luol deng at the 4, he could get your 18 and 9 easily, while shooting lot of close shots. He is a versatile player, i'll give you that, but he really fits the bill of a small forward more than a big man, just because he is playing PF and is putting up numbers like a big man, doesn't mean he is a traditional big man.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

if Lebron does choose Miami, then the local TV stations in Cleveland might as well just air the Miami games next year. Hey, the fans will still see Lebron on TV, and they won't know if that's Jermaine O'neal instead of Anderson Varejao. besides, who would want to watch the Cavs if Lebron isn't there.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

miami is gonna be his destination, ive convinced myself

 

BronBron is terrified and nervous according to what ive read from people who are reporting from wherever he is right now, bball camp or w/e

 

Cleveland is gonna fall off the map

 

 

he is terrified!?!! he doesn't have to be. i would love to read your source lol

[NBA Offseason Thread]

You are being quite ridiculous. No small forward gets 46% of their shots in the basket area, not even Lebron. If you want to argue that an elite power forward in recent years plays more like a SF, it's clearly Dirk or Garnett since neither of them have been over 30% in the basket area in recent years. You're basically trying to penalize him for being a more versatile offensive player.

 

dirk is a traditional European player, he is white, he doesn't have the athleticism, i have nothing to say to that. Garnett plays like a small forward on offense, but is an excellent defensive big man, while bosh does neither.

 

there is no point of going further here. just make a list to yourself the attributes of a big man, and the attributes of a small forward, and ask yourself if bosh's attribute fits a small forward more than a big man.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

It's stupid because NO big man would be as effective down low if you subtracted several inches from their height. So Bosh gets penalized because he can hit jumpers and handle the ball a bit? He's still WAY more dangerous down low than any small forward not named Lebron, and he rebounds just fine for the position. He's a power forward all the way.

 

charles barkley and elton brand says hi.

 

players will be less effective on the post IF they are shorter, but bosh has the size, but still isn't great at the post, and plays like a small forward. He is a oversized small forward. Just sayin...

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Yet he draws fouls at a much higher rate than Boozer so he gets to the line more and have you watched the Jazz? Boozer gets a ton of his shots at the rim off of the pick and roll and put backs not from low post moves.

 

 

yes, he also uses his strength to back down and get close inside shots, easy layups, turn around jumpers, and occasional hook shots. Is it safe to say he is a more traditional big man then Bosh and a better low post scorer of the two. Yes.

 

Why discount him for pick and rolls? Amar'e used it a lot with Nash, that doesn't take anything away from him.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

LOL, that is one of the dumber things I've seen. Shaq wouldn't be a center if he weren't 7'1" 300 pounds either!

 

KG and Sheed are definitely better defenders and rebounders, that doesn't mean that they still don't have a very thin build.

 

Amare is bigger, but plays very soft up front and isn't a good rebounder.

 

None of the power forwards in this class can defend the post or block shots. Lee, Boozer, Amare and Bosh are all below-average defenders. As for the comment that he doesn't play down low, that's just crap. 46% of his shots came in the basket area and he converted over 60% of them. He does just fine down low.

 

 

Is it really that hard to comprehend? If he wasn't 6'10, he is a pure small forward BECAUSE he doesn't have the skills sets of a traditional big man. If Shaq wasn't 7'1 and 300lb, he still is a great low post scorer, knows how to use his strength, and got a highly accurate hook shots. if bosh is 6'8 weighs 230, plays like the way he is, he would something similar to luol deng. Other players have the size and skillsets, bosh only has the height, not the weight nor skillsets.

 

you sure do know your stats man, but if you watched his game, he is also a better slasher than most big man in the league. He got most of his 46% inside shots from layups, drives to baskets. He can play the post, but just isn't very good at it.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

part of boozer's problem is he plays with Okur, so it's not like he's getting alot of help either.

 

When he plays with Noah and Taj, they will take the better low post player, so i think boozer will handle his defensive assignment alright.

 

Of the trio of Bosh Amare and Boozer, Boozer is also the best rebounder and low post scorer, so I will take him for what he is worth.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Well if Shaq said it it must be true!

 

Does that mean Garnett is an oversized SF then? What about Rasheed Wallace? Amare? A lot of power forwards aren't really low-post bangers anymore.

 

 

KG looks like a paper man, but he can defend, block shots, and rebound as well as anyone in the league in his haydays.

 

Sheed is very good low post defender, block shots and good strength.

 

Amare is stronger than bosh, more athletic, and got 20lbs on him.

 

Bosh can't defend the post, can't block shots, doesn't have the strength, nor is he a gifted low post scorer. He is 6'10 and weight 230lbs, he plays on the perimeter and shoots a lot of midrange jumpers. Yes, he would be a small forward if he wasn't 6'10

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Bosh is better because he's a better player, PER is what you use to try to back that up. He is a better offensive player than Boozer and is more mobile. Also, any expert in the league will tell you that Bosh is a better player, and that Boozer isn't even a top-5 player at his position.

 

I lost track of where else this was going, other than laughing at your general "Bosh is an overrated SF that had a career year" point.

 

 

I said Bosh was an oversized small forward who is also a good rebounder..

 

Bosh is the rupaul of basketball.

 

That's what shaq said.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Minutes played are obviously a major consideration. There's a big difference in posting a 20-plus in 38 MPG and doing it in 20 MPG. Chris Bosh has consistently been one of the most efficient big men in the league in heavy minutes. He's a very good offensive player that is effective on the glass.

 

People argue Kobe over Lebron because he has Pau Gasol and wins more, that doesn't mean Kobe's a better player. The team around you has a huge impact on your individual standing. Pau Gasol got basically all of the same crap thrown at him as Bosh did now when he was with Memphis, now you don't hear any of that because he landed in a much better situation.

 

I never argued that Bosh is a good defender, guys have their own strengths and weaknesses. Bosh doesn't have a ton of bulk, so he needs some help doing the dirty work inside. Pairing him with Bargnani up front is just asking him for trouble, pairing him with someone like Perkins or Noah would drastically improve things. It's not Bosh's fault they had a poorly constructed roster.

 

Howard is one of the best defenders in the league so of course their defense is decent. He's an awesome defender and the rest of their team is fairly average. I don't see how that is relevant in any way since Howard is clearly better than Bosh and isn't on any of the teams in question. Players that can single-handedly improve an entire defense are rare.

 

huh? what?

 

I am talking about individual skills sets, not winning. Any team Bosh was on sucked, end of argument. 4 Years ago, Lakers were crap team, Kobe is averaging 35 ppg, people crown him as the best in the league. Now it's a debate between Lebron and Kobe, and yet their PER is drastically different.

 

It's could be the same debate with Bosh and Boozer. You can't necessarily say Bosh is better than Boozer just because of PER, it doesn't measure accurately. It also depends on the team you are on, the style of basketball you play, the competition you played against, and the efficiency on defense, any type of clutch plays, how they fare in the playoffs. You can't measure any of those with PER. So to say Bosh is better than Boozer because he consistently puts up better PER is faulty.

 

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Um, what? That isn't remotely true. Bosh has put up a PER north of 22 for five straight seasons (a total Boozer has only reached once) while averaging at least 22-9 every year during that stretch.

 

As for the Toronto part, have you looked at their roster? They're playing a small forward at center, of course their defense sucks. Put him on a team that doesn't have a lot of soft, jump-shooting European players and their defense would improve.

 

 

PER is nice advanced stats, but it's not what separates a good player from a bad player. Marrese Speights had a PER of close to 20 in his rookie year, does that mean he is the rookie of the year over Rose?

 

Kobe's PER is always far from Lebron's, why do people argue Kobe over Lebron? You can't compare two players base on their stats and PER. Stats don't measure intangibles. Yes, Deng and Beasley have similar numbers, but 95% people will tell you they will rather have Deng over Beasley.

 

the Magic had a great defensive team over the past two seasons, and the guys like Lewis, Carter, Nelson, Turkolu aren't remotely close to being great defensive players. It was all due to Howard's inside presence. Bosh was surrounded by subpar defensive players, but it's no excuse to finish last in the league in defensive efficiency. If you have watched any of the Raptors game, he is not physical defender, not a good help defender, nor does he block shots. He is not a good defender. Period.

 

[NBA Offseason Thread]

i remember just two years ago many analysts called bosh an overrated oversized small forward who is also a decent rebounder. Yes, he had a nice run last year during his contract year, it's highly doubtful he will have another year like last year's. With him in the lineup, Toronto was the worst team in the league in terms of defense. So i dont think you can call him a defensive stopper either.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

I don't really see how you can say that when the two best players in the equation are on the other side. Deng and Beasley are both talented forwards that most seem to want to give away for free, so they kind of cancel out. Does Noah's defense/rebounding make up ALL of the difference between the caliber of the two stars? Hard to say.

 

I would say it depends on who else signs. If they Heat got Haywood or some other defensive center, then I'd say they're better than the Bulls since Noah is the only edge you can really argue that Chicago has right now.

 

 

You must be high if you think Deng = Beasley. Unlike Beasley, deng doesn't have attitude problems, and works hard on defense. Deng is a grown man, and beasley is a whiny little b****. Heat wants to trade Beasley for a pure salary dump, but Bulls would actually get something in return for Deng.

Overall Deng is a much better player and team player right now.

 

deng > beasley by a landslide

 

the heats have 1 superstar, 1 borderline superstar, 1 bench player, bulls have 1 future superstar, 1 allstar, and 1 potential allstar. Given that, I would say Heats might have a little bit of an edge there. but the bulls also have two solid role players in Gibson and Johnson.

 

And the Bulls should have about $2.5mil to sign a free agent after they hand out a max, while if the Heat sign the big 3, they would be forced to sign only minimum contracts.

 

So overall, the Bulls should have an edge overall in terms of roster. But roster is not the biggest concern here, Lebron's ego and loyalty ultimately decides where he will sign.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

Bulls need Anthony Morrow big (assuming no LBJ). He'd be the perfect sixth man. I'd also sign Ronnie Brewer to be our starting 2-guard. Not a great offensive player, but can score efficiently and play solid D which we will need at the guard spot. Also brings nice size. I'd also go for Luke Ridnour for the back-up PG spot to round out the roster along with Asik who is a forgone conclusion as an addition.

 

Rose/Ridnour

Brewer/Morrow

Deng/Johnson

Boozer/Gibson

Noah/Asik

 

That is a solid group right there who should hopefully grow into a bonafide contender in couple years when Rose becomes hopefully a star.

 

 

that starting 5 would require no defense at the perimeter, all opposing defense has to do is stay at home around the painted area to guard Rose's penetration.

 

Brewer would be a nice addition for a 6th man

 

My 5 would look like this

 

rose/ jwill or ridnour

allen or miller / morrow

deng / barnes

boozer / gibson

noah / ratliff or asik

[NBA Offseason Thread]

this thought just got to my mind. boozer will be a post up player for the bulls, which means Noah will be forced out of the paint more often, where he will attempt to do some catch and shooting. We will see a lot more of those ugly shots from Noah next season.

[NBA Offseason Thread]

I stop reading for a few hours and it takes forever to catch up.

 

Can anyone share the story about Delonte West and LeBron's mom?

 

 

it was rumored that Delonte did this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/g...o_n_578750.html

[NBA Offseason Thread]

just a thought, if lebron comes to the bulls to join the current roster, wins 6 rings and plays for the same amount of games as Jordan did, while average stats to his career average, who would you say as the greatest of all time?

[NBA Offseason Thread]

he's a 2 time all star there and his overall postseason numbers are 20/12, in the west that is good. Also he's a power forward, he needs a good PG to make the most out of him offensively, not comparing Deron Williams and D Rose, but Rose is a good PG

 

 

really? are you a fan of Tmac back in the days? just assuming lol

 

There is no question that he is talented, but he is also soft, doesn't hustle and play hard to fit the mold of a player on a championship team. It would be great if signing Lebron can get more commitment out of him.