SCCWS
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Posts posted by SCCWS
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On 9/6/2022 at 9:42 AM, Bob Sacamano said:
I feel like if you bring back Abreu, you gotta trade Vaughn. This team needs to get more athletic, more left-handed, and Eloy needs to DH more (not that that is a guarantee they would). Colas likely comes up early next year for one corner spot and either a free agent or trade candidate plays the other. Preferably a left-handed bat.
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22 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:
I give less than zero fucks about Eloys opinions. He has not earned the right to choose where he plays. Does Eloy want to be a big leaguer? Then DH. I am not saying you burn his OF glove, but he needs to be the primary DH.
I understand your point, but if Eloy/agent says then trade me where I can play in the field at 25 even though I am a terrible OF, what happens? Trade him as a DH to another team who will play him in OF/IB( not sure he even is capable).
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15 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:
Yeah, see I am not giving Eloy away. He's worth more to the Sox than anyone else. What I am doing with him is making him the everyday DH and making it such that Gavin Sheets isn't penciled in as an everyday player so when Eloy only play 100 games, we have a built in replacement.
Giving up on Eloy makes 0 sense. Just let the dude who is actually a FA and is the root cause of the awful team defense exit the picture before his production actually catches up to his age.
But Eloy seems to be saying he does not want to be a DH. Especially at 25 years old. If he insists on playing LF, you either play him or trade him, You then move Vaughn to 1B and make Abreu the DH and some 1B. If Abreu refuses to play 1B , then you trade him as well.
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14 hours ago, tray said:
Sign Agreu and trade Vaughn for a legit top of rotation pitcher and a pitching prospect.
Trade Hendriks.
Retire Tony and fire all of the coaching and training staff.
Replace Steve Stone with Ryan McGuffey
Make more improvements to the ballpark.
I don't think Vaughn gets you a legit top of rotation starter and a prospect. Vaughn is pretty much limited to 1st base but would be a very good player. Maybe straight for a legit 3/4 starter. I still would rather sign Abreu and make him the primary DH and try Vaughn as Full-time 1B.
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1 hour ago, Texsox said:
I know this wasn't directed at me.
To get me back interested I'd like to see legit players on the going up side of their MLB careers at 2nd and RF. That shows me a little give a shit.
I'd like a new manager with some experience without ties to the organization.
I'd like a new hitting coach.
I'm in the minority but I'll accept the front office staying the same. There are some positions that also need help like catcher. But many of the other spots are likely to improve with healing.
But the FO , not the managerial staff,, selected our present hitting coach, 2B and RF. Leaving them in place to start this season is part of the reason for our problems more than TLR.
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Agree. There is a list of concerns. Getting rid of LaRussa is one but there needs to be changes in FO as well.
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Reese McGuire has been sizzling for a month since he was traded to Boston at the deadline.
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21 hours ago, Jerksticks said:
You ever feel sorry for Vaughn? If I was him sometimes I’d be thinking, “I play first base. I’ve always played first base. I wish this team would have passed on drafting me if they didn’t want me to play first base. I’m gonna keep working hard and doing my best, but fuck me, I play first base.”
As I suggest, move Abreu to DH next year and put Vaughn as the 1B. But there is always the possibility that Vaughn may struggle to play 1B as well down the road.
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"I wish Andrew Vaughn could put the power game together but he just can’t seem to do it. And we need it very badly. Because as it stands, he’s just a middle second tier player. "
I agree that Vaughn is a second tier player but I don't know how much his defense affects his offense. Abreu needs to be the field because he is by far the best offensive player on the team. When AV plays 1B and DH , he is a +.300 hitter but once he goes to LF or RF his offense drops down. I hope next year they re-up Abreu and make him be the DH and move Vaughn to 1B. Then maybe we can see if the power game is fully restored. I think the Sox are better off w Vaughn as the 1B and keeping Abreu as a DH than trading Vaughn as a 2nd tier player.
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Cease will win his game at least.
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11 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:
My thoughts are the same as they were when I looked at the lineup. If they aren’t fully healthy they aren’t competitive with top level AL teams. If Anderson and Robert get healthy and everyone else stays healthy, I still think they are offensively capable of being dangerous. When you have Pollock leading off and Romy batting ninth with Harrison and Gavin down there too, it’s not enough talent in the order.
But most teams have players out a week or a month or the rest of the year. Also, there will be additional injuries short term or rest of year for the rest of the season. So the teams that are able to play through attrition and survive will make the playoffs. Those with not enough depth to cover the losses will falter.
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8 hours ago, KrankinSox said:
Crowd was electric. They must have sensed our presence. I was also in attendance. Game turned around after I ate a waffle cone. I'm not saying I'm the reason we won but I'm not ruling it out either.
Except it was 58% full. Get the fans in those seats going forward
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9 hours ago, hi8is said:
If there’s a time… it’s NOW. Houston and Cleveland.
Shock the world. Win both of those series.
Of course, I’m highly doubtful we will.
Unfortunately , Detroit is in the middle for Cleveland. We need at least 2 or 3 from Houston.
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9 hours ago, Spumoni said:
I mean, isnt this the definition of a poor return? If anything, wouldn't you want to cut bait and try to dump as much salary as possible for flexibility elsewhere on the roster, even if it means the return is just a few fliers?
Again, has to be sure it isn't an injury issue that could go away w surgery next fall. We recently discussed Joey Gallo before he went to LA. A big contract w a terrible streak. That would seem like a better move than just a few fliers and Moncada turns around and has a big year somewhere else.
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8 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:
I agree! Isn't that what the Sox and Blue Jays did at the beginning of the season when we traded Zack Collins for Reese McGuire!
Much bigger contracts would be required though.
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9 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:
Oh I don't know, maybe the posters in here who are justify Moncada as this great player who will turn it around. Go ask them!
The FO must know if Moncada is playing through an injury or is just struggling. If it is a struggle, then the Sox should try and swap him in off-season for someone similar who is also struggling with a bad contract. Strictly a trade of Moncada will get the Sox a poor return.
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14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
Get the dude out of Boston and see if something can be salvaged. If not, yeet.
Bradley is very good defensively in CF/RF. But his offense is really bad with several different teams at this point. He is LH so if they are only looking for a late inning replacement, he could work-out.
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14 hours ago, Marqhead said:
I agree with you. To many guys having terrible seasons, this isn’t the year to push the chips in on rentals. I’d prefer they stand pat, reload during the off-season and hope a few of these guys bounce back and stay healthy.
Caveat is that I know they won’t really reload during the off-season. But still understanding how this terrible front office operates I’m not that upset with doing nothing at this deadline.
I think from a FO perspective, the Sox should have made some RF move. I didn't like Gallo and there were not a lot of trade-able pieces, but Hahn should have taken someone. We had people for and against Gallo and if he was the only option, that should have been the move.
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15 hours ago, hankchifan said:
Looks like that’s it. One middle of the pack reliever while Twins are loading up.
Maybe the White Sox are really excited about Dikeman, but this is how the Red Sox summarized it:
"The Red Sox accepted McGuire and more to move on from Diekman just four months into his two-year contract. His tendency to play with gasoline out of the Boston bullpen and propensity for walking opposing hitters in multiples won’t be missed. "
Here are the pros and cons of the Red Sox's trade deadline deals (providencejournal.com)
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2 hours ago, chetkincaid said:
I am 100% in favor of trading higher priced assets for some younger ones who will help the team next year and beyond. Hell yes.
So if guys like Grandal, Lynn, Abreu are dealt now for younger players down the road, are you okay?
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24 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:
Nope. It’s all Fool’s gold. This has been a .500 team since last years all star break and there should be no moves made to prop up this team for this year. The front office should be focusing on 2023.
If it is Fool's gold as you say, then they should be trading some higher priced assets for some younger ones. If they are adding to the roster, they are assuming the roster needs some improvements like RF. If they are just swapping relievers or a 5/6th SP, they are really doing nothing. We shall see!!!
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58 minutes ago, Tony said:
I guess the issue I have with that premise is we are just focused on the Central. As Sox fans, the goal needs to be bigger than that. Just because the Sox got gifted a spot in the worst division in baseball doesn’t give them an excuse to accept horseshit baseball.
That is true. But regardless, the Sox are still only 3 games behind the Twins and Cleveland. We could win the Central by 10 games if this team wakes up. Agree the Central winner may be out quickly , but lets just win the Division and take our chances from there
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36 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:
Pretty sure they’re back in chicago for the Oakland series. But yeah. Eloy needs to DH.
That is correct but also a weird schedule set-up. Sox played 3 in Chicago after ASG, then will play 2 in Coors, then back to A's in Chicago.
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3 hours ago, VAfan said:
The Sox have certainly underachieved this year. For some time, they've been hovering around .500. They've been pretty devastated by injuries, and massive underperformance from highly paid players like Yasmani Grandal and Yoan Moncada, both of whom have played hurt a lot this year.
The question is -- what to do at this point?
My own take is that they should not make major changes or trade off future value for present value.
There are actually some positive things that could be built on.
1. The offense is finally coming around. Here are some OPS numbers for June.
Tim Anderson - .855 (before injury it was .922 in May)
Andrew Vaughn - .940
Luis Robert - .770
Jose Abreu - .911
Jake Burger - .980
AJ Pollock - .849
Reese McGuire - .690 or Seby Zavala - .781
Josh Harrison - .822They have just lost Adem Engel to injury, but his June OPS is .594, so replacing him with Gavin Sheets is not an offensive downgrade, even if it is a defensive one.
They also lost Danny Mendick, who was hitting at a June OPS of .771. Who knows what Lenyn Sosa will put up in his place?Who knows if they can sustain this, but this looks a lot more like what one would have expected before the season started.
2. The starting pitching is in better shape than it was to start the year.
The Sox finally have 5 legitimate starters.
Michael Kopech - 2.38 ERA
Dylan Cease - 2.68 ERA
Johnny Cueto - 2.95 ERA
Lance Lynn - 5.79 ERA in his first 2 starts, but career 3.5 ERA (even if he doesn't return to last year's 2.69 ERA)
Lucas Giolito - 5.40 ERA (but last year he went from a 4.15 ERA in the first half to a 2.65 ERA in the second half).And they also have spot starters in Davis Martin (4.29 ERA), Vince Velasquez (4.46 ERA) and perhaps Jimmy Lambert (3.29 ERA) or Reynaldo Lopez (3.16 ERA).
They DON'T have Dallas Keuchel and his 7.88 ERA over 8 starts.
3. The bullpen looks like it may be the most stretched portion of the roster, but will get reinforcements
Without Liam Hendriks and Aaron Bummer, the bullpen is thin.
But we still have Kendall Graveman and Joe Kelly (who should get back to career norms) at the back end, and 2-inning guys in Velasquez, Lambert, and Lopez to shorten the number of pitchers needed for the back end of games. Plus, if the offense continues to produce and Lynn and Giolito do their jobs, we should have more games with some cushion to ease the pressure on the bullpen.
4. The team will get reinforcements in the second half without having to make trades.
Eloy Jimenez -- who knows what he'll be when he returns. But at the very least he should be upgrade from Gavin Sheets. His career OPS is .813, but it was .891 in 2020.
Yasmani Grandal -- he went on a tear after he returned from injury last year. His second half OPS was 1.154.
Yoan Moncada - will he be an upgrade? It's not clear. When Eloy is back, to play Moncada you would have to sit either Pollock or Burger. His second half OPS last year was .780. No need to rush him.
Danny Mendick - playing better than Harrison or Garcia.
Adam Engel - good defensive replacement outfielder/spot starter.
Liam Hendriks - closer
Aaron Bummer - lefty set up man
Kyle Crick - depth BP piece5. They play in the AL Central, where Cleveland is leading with a .563 winning percentage.
That is tied for the NL Central as the worst winning percentage among division leaders.
It puts the Sox 4.5 games back right now.
The Sox have 13 games against the Twins, with 6 at home, and 7 on the road, including 6 of their last 9 games.
They have 14 games against the Guardians, with 7 at home and 7 on the road. (Last game is Sept 22).Needless to say, those head-to-head matchups with Cleveland and Minnesota will go a long way to deciding the division winner.
6. TLR's 1983 Sox went on a second-half tear.
That Sox team was 40-37 in the first half, and 59-26 in the second half. They didn't add anyone significant to the roster during the season. They just started playing better.
(This isn't going to ever happen again, just like no team is ever going to have 4 complete game victories again in the playoffs like the 2005 Sox did in the ALCS, but the starting pitching for the 1983 Sox in the second half was lights out. The trio of Lamarr Hoyt, Floyd Bannister, Richard Dotson went 42-4 starting July 12th to the end of the regular season. Hoyt won 13 games in a row from July 27 to Sept 30 (with one no decision) and 15 of 16 starting July 13th. Bannister won 9 in a row, and went 13-1 after July 12th (with 3 no decisions). Dotson won 10 in a row, and went 14-2 from July 15th to the end of the year (with 1 no decision). Crazy.)
The Atlanta Braves were 44-45 in the first half last year, and 44-28 in the second half on their way to a WS win.
I'm sure there are many other examples of a team not playing well in the first half and then going on a tear in the second half.
7. What would the point be of making deals?
The Sox don't have a lot of depth in the minors or major league pieces to trade from. And if you trade guys like Burger or Sheets you are just weakening the roster for the next few years. Burger is looking more like the longer term answer at 3B than Yoan Moncada is right now. And Sheets had a rough start to the year, but otherwise had a stellar platoon role last year, and we're pretty desperate for LH power bats.
I would consider trading Moncada, who doesn't look like he's going to earn his contract over the next few years, and Eloy Jimenez, who seems very injury prone. But they are also at their lowest trade value. Who would take on Moncada's contract and send anything of value in return? And could you get anything in an Eloy trade likely to have the same upside if he gains some health consistency? I would also trade Lucas Giolito, who seems too inconsistent to be worthy of a big money extension, but his value is also low at the moment. He's more likely to be someone moved in the offseason with only 1 year of control left.
Conclusion
I say ride it out with this group -- players, coaches/manager, and front office. See if they can turn it around with only minor tweaks that don't cost significant future value. The Ryan Tepera trade from last year, for example, not the Kimbrel trade. If they don't make it, consider significant changes in the offseason.
I would say that the White Sox are so far an average type injury team. Teams like Minny, Detroit, Cubs, Red Sox,Braves etc have about 20 injuries compared to Sox w 12 on average.
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So is Gavin Sheets for real?
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Unless Vaughn can be the 1B/DH and Abreu be the DH/1B to start 23. Then if Vaughn cannot play 1B on an average basis, then move him. Now if Abreu still wants to play 1B full-time, that would kill the idea.