SonofaRoache

I posted the actual conversation you falsely cited above. As you can see, I never said what you claimed i said. And it was you who misread my post.

In fact I will save you the trouble Ray. Here is that exchange. He said the Sox, not Chicago itself, and he is right. The fact that we are even compared to the Rays and Royals speaks volumes. I think his point is that if money is almost equal, top players will not be picking us. We'd essentially have to force players to pick us by overpaying.

I said that I took Jack's post as meaning the team itself was less desirable and not the city of Chicago. He is right about that, the Sox are viewed as an organization less favorably than the top teams in baseball. I did not say that it was the reason we aren't signing FA'a at all, UNLESS, all things money related were about equal. You took it as me saying the Sox aren't signing FAs because no one wants to play in Chicago. I never said that.

Neither does anyone else. They will not sign those guys because they won't be the highest bidder. Now if they offered 260m and the Angels offered 255m, he is probably headed to LA. That is where the desirability comes into play.

But they were not allowed to be close if the article is correct. As it said they were not allowed to match.

Here is another thing, that article says the Cardinals were not allowed to match. So if it were truly about the money, why wouldn't Robert let the Cardinals top the Sox offer?

Not at all. I was answering a question someone asked about why we weren't listed as favorites on national websites to sign top free agents. I said the answer was because experts didn't expect us to beat out other teams for their services. YOU took the conversation in another direction. I never said the only reason we didn't sign FAs was because we are not desirable. Nor did I say it was because the city of Chicago was not desirable. My stance, is that it is a combination of not beating out better situated teams if contracts are similar, and us not being willing to outbid everyone else on longer term deals. I also believe the Sox spend a ton of money when necessary, just in an inefficient manner. Now, this being said, I do think players turn better contracts to play in a better situation. They can avoid the long term financial loss of turning down these better offers by negotiating opt outs into their contracts. This allows them to sign more lucrative contracts if they need to, as elite player salaries increase yearly and they can recoup lost earnings they missed on by taking the lesser contract.

Last year one team gave a legit offer to Manny. Harper probably had two such offers. And by legit offers I mean offers they'd strongly consider signing. This year I think the top pitchers get 3 such offers. I think the secondary pitchers like Wheeler will get 4 such offers. Grandal may get 5 such offers.

This is not under dispute. Clearly, if a team over pays they become the favorite. When things are neck and neck, which is the case with a many FAs, what sets teams apart? And this makes our situation worse because we refuse to overspend on quality FAs with the exception of the cheaper Cuban guys.

Yep, which is why the Sox aren't favorites to sign the top FAs. No one nationally or locally thinks they will outbid top teams, mainly because of our history of not doing so. Abreu's contract is referenced everytime I read or watch free agency talk about us.

He doesn't want to admit the Sox aren't a desirable team when compared to the other big boys. And that we have to outspend to get the goods. Thus, since we haven't gotten the goods in FA, we aren't willing to spend the most on elite talent.

Facts. They also didn't sign elite talent and supplement their roster with good young offensive talent. They are doing this now, which is why I have faith they will at least spend on the free agents ranked in that 10 to 25 area.

Robert wasn't an MLB player at the time. I would like to see evidence that your claim of 95 percent is accurate, if you don't mind. I would also like a large sample size and not 3 cases. I agree with your premise, but for different reasons.

No one can cite that example because we don't have contract offers for everyone. Just like you can't prove the Sox haven't offered players more money and got turned down. Rick Hahn mentioned this year how some teams had better situations to offer than we did, and how players pick teams for several reasons.

I think he means spends 40 million no matter the players brought in during FA. 40 million spent on 4 meh players or 40 million on two good players for instance.

It isn't a one or the other thing. The Sox dont get top players at market value when other teams are involved because they are not as desirable. In turn, the Sox do not overpay top players due to their lack of desirability either. I would have no problem if Cole says he hates JR and Kenny, but still signs because we give him the biggest deal. But, odds are we won't.

Ok

This is fair. The Sox will spend money, it just needs to start being big contracts for elite talent. No more spread the contracts amongst marginal players to avoid risk.

At this point it is not assuming the worst. Rick Hahn's FA signings tell a terrifying tale. He has another chance to change this narrative this year, so we shall see.

No one said it was because they played in Chicago. The argument is mostly because JR has yet to outbid teams for top players and runs two downtrodden organizations. This makes his Chicago teams less desirable, not the city itself. So to overcome this lack of desirability, the Sox will need to overpay.

If he isnt correct, then you should be able to quickly provide evidence of the several occassions with the Sox beating out other teams for top MLB FA's.

If I'm so wrong you can prove it. Please provide me links to experts that predict the Sox will sign any highly covered free agents this year. Please provide me links showing the previously highly coveted MLB free agents the Sox have signed? And not players who hadn't proved to be top notch in the MLB prior to signing. The question I was answering is why the experts aren't linking us to top names, so any info you can provide will be helpful.

Why were the Sox offering the most money for Machado? Because all of his desirable destinations didn't sit at the table. If you take the Padres deal out of it and add the Yankees and Red Sox in at 250 million, like our deal, who would he sign with?

He said the Sox, not Chicago itself, and he is right. The fact that we are even compared to the Rays and Royals speaks volumes. I think his point is that if money is almost equal, top players will not be picking us. We'd essentially have to force players to pick us by overpaying.

It's not the city, it's the organization, i.e. the Chicago Bulls.