LowerCaseRepublican

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN I love Maddox...this is hate mail that he got for a column saying that Mexicans working in the States should be paid adequately. http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart is the article. I especially like the part that illegal immigrants are not "taking" jobs from Americans at all. It is American multinational corporations that are taking the jobs away and using illegal immigrants as a scapegoat. And Tex, I really like your point about drugs. I dunno if you've heard about what's going down in Colombia but the government there is using weed killers dumped out of airplanes to get rid of the coca plant and the chemicals they are using are getting into the water supply, killing innocent peoples' crops etc. All because we can't stop doing blow...and of course, the illegal drug trade in cocaine has increased since they started this so it's having no real effect on the drug trade. Bill Maher actually has a pretty good piece on it in his book "When You Ride Alone, You Ride With bin Laden".

Happy birthday, 1549. Rock on!

Hmmm...hunting kids for sport like in the Harper's article, the wall keeping people from their jobs and destroying the Palestinian economy, 85% of the retaliation killings are collateral damage innocents so it's easy to recruit saying "Your family had nothing to do with terrorism and they still killed your [insert family member here]" Living in occupied territories and building illegal settlements, killing innocents in a mosque and then revering the guy as a hero in naming a park after him and writing a popular book about his actions. When you take land that is not yours, put up a wall to keep out all Palestinians and build settlements in land that isn't yours, kill innocents if as collateral damage or hunt them for sport...how can you not expect there to be uprisings using whatever weapons they have. Israel has a very direct role in causing an upsurge in the terrorism it faces.

I'm still waiting for that source that shows that Al Aqsa's is in cahoots with Arafat. And hey, if you're so college educated, wouldn't you have taken a basic class is speech communications in which you would learn the basis of debate that would show that just randomly throwing out the labels "Jew hater", "Anti-Semite", "terrorist whore" etc. don't strengthen your case. I have never said that Israel should "roll over and die". I have just shown that they have a part in causing the terrorism that they are facing and need to re-evaluate their policies because they are failing horribly. But please, keep asserting the false premise, it just makes my job of convincing people about the pitfalls of Zionism that much easier. And FlaSoxx, your Monty Python quote...NICE!

Is it just me or does Al Harris look a little bit like Bob Marley? This game is insane. I don't like the Packers at all but I think that Favre deserves it with his dad's death.

Later Brando. Rock on.

Mr. Pro Wrestling Wardrobe Designer. This is hysterical.

1) If these news sources are so plentiful, then you wouldn't mind showing us some of these sources that link Arafat and Al Aqsa's. Oh yes, from a respected newspaper as well, please. 2) Actually many people here are not "Jew haters" or "Anti-Semites" as you would have many of us believe. I think a lot of people see your lack of argumentation skills and refusal to show facts proving your case as a means that your Zionist case isn't that strong. Who knew that just about all Sox fans here are Jew Haters?

IIRC, the suicide bomber might have been part of the Al Aqsa's Martyrs Brigade, an organization that did not take part in the cease fire. I may not be 100% correct on this because it's a little after midnight and I've been drinking a little this evening.

LOL, I've got cash...it's just that most college textbooks, as I'm sure a lot of college kids on here will attest, are really f***ing expensive, haha.

Is it just me or is the supreme irony of I4E discussing wholesale slaughter and violence followed by I4E saying "Peace" at the end being seen by everybody? I4E, if you'd like to discuss personal attacks at you, I'd like to see that: As for ones you've hurled at me "terrorist supporter", "whore", "douchebag", anti-Semite", "Jew hater" etc. So please stop with the pariah complex. And yes I4E, in my posts when I say that "The Palestinians need a great leader and all they got was an Arafat" that obviously means that I loooooove Arafat. Your debate skills, or lack thereof, are quite...in a word...pitiful. You do not argue against the points I make with facts but rather personal attacks. Then you assert that your opposition stands for positions that they don't really stand for and attack those "straw man" positions. And who can forget my favorite "This is BS" and then not back up your opinion with any reason as to why it should be considered wrong since it comes from a respected source. You can resent my calling Sharon a war criminal, but it doesn't make it any less true. Sharon is, as Brando put it "a blood soaked butcher". As for the PA not disarming the rebels...with the IDF keeping Arafat in a 2 room compound with no electricity, no plumbing etc. how can anybody expect him to have control over disarming rebels? I mean, I hate Arafat as a manipulative little piece of garbage but destroying his ability to reach the masses etc. then that definitely undermines his ability to corral the extremists in. The basic assumption behind the Israeli claim that Arafat "must do more" to stop attacks on Israel is that the primary role of the Palestinian Authority is not to work for the security and well-being of the Palestinian people, but rather to guarantee the security and safety of Israeli occupation forces, settlers and civilians. Even if such an arrangement were politically tenable, the realities of the past ten years made it impossible. The Palestinian Authority is not a sovereign state, but a quasi-authority which at the height of its power was only given control over 17.2% of the Israeli occupied West Bank (so called "Area A" under the Oslo and subsequent accords). Even Israel with all its military and economic might could not guarantee its own safety when it controlled every inch of the West Bank. Over the past 18 months, Israel has systematically attacked all the facilities of the Palestinian Authority, including police stations, prisons and intelligence headquarters, and killed and assassinated many Palestinian security officers. Hence while crippling and killing the Palestinian security forces, Israel makes the ludicrous demand that these same forces go out and work on Israel's behalf. Israel has further undermined its own claim that Arafat is "in control" of all the violence, by continuing to demand that he act while he is a prisoner of the Israelis in two rooms of his Ramallah headquarters, with no outside contact, no electricity and barely enough food and water. The suicide bombings which have followed the brutal Israeli re-invasions of almost every major West Bank town since late March 2002 prove conclusively that there is no level of violence or ruthlessness that either Israel or the Palestinian Authority can employ that will eliminate those determined to answer the suffering of millions of Palestinian civilians under decades of Israeli military occupation by inflicting suffering on Israeli civilians. The only way to end suicide bombings and other kinds of Palestinian violence is to end the extreme violence of the Israeli military occupation which produces and fuels both Palestinian resistance against the occupation forces and violent attacks against Israeli civilians. Absent a political process explicitly designed to end the occupation, there is little reason to believe that such attacks can or will end. And hey, I'll donate to CAIR, Electronic Intifada and the ADC too.

Why are we worried about flights when the new scare is...*gasp* almanacs!

I'm Neil and I got to University of Illinois at Champaign Urbana. I'm a junior in History.

Sure, some Nazis did it for pure hatred of Jews, homosexuals, communists, socialists, et al. However to paint with a broad brush that everybody involved with it was in it for that reason is asinine. Even Hermann Georing said that "the common person doesn't want war". I mean, look how many troops disagreed with the policy in Iraq but went and served anyway. And Brando, this is my question for both sides: Has missile attacks/helicopter gunship attacks stopped suicide bombs? Have suicide bombs removed Israelis from the illegal settlements in the occupied territories or gotten back the occupied lands? There needs to be a serious rethinking of policy on both sides or, like I said before, they're in for a long and bloody walk in circles. Israel has an unprosecuted war criminal for a leader and Palestine, they need a great leader and they got stuck with an Arafat. As long as there is violence, the Palestinian hardline will ally itself with Arafat as will the Israeli hardline with their extreme right wing members of the Likud party. It's a pity that these two countries have incredibly s***ty leadership. I mean, if Arafat is such a huge supporter of fighting for the cause...my friend Adam and I always wonder [like we do with Osama] "If they are really so hardcore into the cause why don't they blow themselves up?" I think that there could be somewhat of a decrease in the willingness of people to strap bombs to themselves if the officially recognized state stops their terrorism [i.e. Harper's article etc.] and apologizes for their errors like Sabra, Shatila, and collateral damage attacks. The idea that ANY group acts like that they make no errors and won't apologize [this goes for the Palestinians as well] makes it very easy to catalyze anger towards the perpetrators. There is incredible wrong on both sides and it will take a vast change in the ideology of both sides for there to be any real strides in decreasing the terrorism wrought upon innocents of either side. It's unfortunate that none of us can actually really make that change happen within this country. Ishmookie, the IDF [read the Harper's story I posted along with my other sources in this thread] goes after innocent people at times. See also, the Physicians for Human Rights and UN research on the subject that I posted earlier in the thread. In fact, 85% of the Palestinian casualties are "collateral damage". And you can say that the chart is BS, but it is backed up by facts from well respected organizations. [Read previous pages in the thread for the source names etc] And I personally know a few people who are Palestinian...and on 9/11 they and their families were not celebrating and I'm quite angered at your painting an entire race of people with such a broad brush. Ish, if the IDF wants peace then why do they go to territories and shoot kids for sport like has been depicted in articles? Or why do they attack schools? It goes both ways. And it's not just liberal bleeding hearts that are saying it...it's even members of the most elite Israeli fighting force, the Sayaret Metkal saying the same thing. FlaSoxxJim, me and others went through this with Israel4ever already.

I'm nost saying that the Palestinians are lily white in this, not by a long shot. I am saying however, there is a right wing radical fringe that believes, much like Israel4ever, that ALL Palestinians don't want peace and only contribute suicide bombs to the world. Given that, it is easy to see how some, not ALL Palestinians have that as part of their mindset in developing their radical beliefs that ultimately culminate in attacks against Israel. Yes, ultimately it is a conscious effort to say "Hey, I'm gonna throw a dynamite vest with shrapnel covered in rat poison and get on a bus and detonate it" but there is a lot of environmental experience that goes into creating the ideology of a person who would ultimately do that. [see the articles I've posted for various reasons] My intent in that statement you quoted was not that it was the end all be all, but just one of many factors that went into the formulation of creating radical terrorist Palestinians.

LOL

An addition to my last post so it's not misconstrewed, I do think the Palestinians are at fault with suicide bombs. I just think that there are only so many times that you can see bulldozed homes, murdered family members, IDF troops keeping you from going to work and your children from going to school, the schools being attacked and then you just go nuts and want revenge on the people that have made their lives so terrible. It's hard to negotiate with somebody who has seen so much s*** that they are so deeply entrenched in wanting to strike back at the people who did it.

Tex, don't expect facts from I4E. We've asked for them a bunch of times but he never has them. And he never did discuss the anti-semitism that was on FAUX, er excuse me, FOX News Channel. Thanks for the backup on the chart I posted, FlaSoxxJim. I have said that what the Palestinian suicide bombings are deplorable. It's just trying to use facts in this debate to show the side that Israel is doing things wrong as well and are being called on it by people everywhere, even their most elite fighting force. As Tex said, it is sides entrenched so far deep like I4E that is preventing peace in the region. The Palestinians who see so much s*** every day of their lives and the "collateral damage" bombings etc. make people a LOT more willing to strap explosives to their chests and hop on a bus along the Green Line. Some Israelis enshrine guys like the asshat who shot up the mosque. They predicate their ideology that all Palestinians don't want peace to justify their beliefs. I personally believe that there should be more responsibility place on Israel's shoulders because it is actually a state, has a better economy at the current time and is the one causing the greatest amount of injury/death. As long as there is Ariel "War Criminal" Sharon in power and Yasser "Bad Man" Arafat in power, we're looking for a long and unfortunately very bloody trip going around in circles. I believe it is the violence of the Israelis in collateral damage, the wall blocking people from getting to work etc. that makes people more willing, even if they don't want to, to adopt the ideology of Al Aqsa's Martyrs Brigade, HAMAS, Hizbollah, etc. If radical right wing Zionist fringe groups all say that the Palestinians don't want peace, then it's a self fulfilling prophecy. When a friend of mine, a Jewish friend of mine for all those who are wondering so he doesn't get labeled a "Palestinian terrorist whore" by somebody [i'm looking at you I4E], wrote a column the day after Yom Kippur saying that the hardline Israeli right wing needs to forgive many Palestinians. My favorite quote in there is "They needed a leader but all they got was an Arafat". I posted the article link somewhere in these 37 pages, it's a really nice read. But then again what would I know? I'm just a terrorist whore, Jew hater, anti-Semite that doesn't know my ass from the hole in which we found Saddam.

I guess the duct tape and plastic sheeting industries needed a boost to pay the Christmas bonuses.

Yeah, they got rolled alright??? They smoked the Colts

PNAC scares the f*** out of me. I can't find the photo now but I used to have one of Bush in front of a TV with the TV tagline of Iraq:Quagmire and then Wolfowitz standing there with the PNAC manual saying "The book is a lot better than the movie."

Bush likes torture, I mean check this out: Amnesty International reported, "US Exports $20 million of Shackles, Electro-Shock Technology" to countries that the US condemned for torture. In 2002, Bush, Jr. violated the spirit of our export policy and approved the sale of equipment implicated in torture to Yemen, Jordan, Morocco and Thailand, despite these countries' proven abuses from the same weapons Amnesty also reported, "The total value of US exports of electro-shock weapons was $14.7 million in 2002 and exports of restraints totaled $4.4 million in the same period. The Commerce and State Departments approved these sales, permitting 45 countries to purchase electro-shock technology, including 19 that had been cited for the use of such weapons to inflict torture since 1990." While not many US news papers are reporting this story - the rest of the world is noticing through the Internet: Asia Times reports, "Although torture is endemic in Saudi Arabia, Smith & Wesson had no qualms about exporting approximately 10,000 leg-irons to Riyadh. And, apparently sharing this lack of concern, the Bush administration approved the sale," said William Schulz, executive director of AIUSA, Amnesty's US branch. For decades, human rights groups and the US State Department have documented Saudi Arabia's cruel use of leg-irons and shackles to inflict torture and force confessions," Schulz added. "With this shameful shipment, we can expect the torture of religious minorities and peaceful protestors to continue for years to come." The Manila Times reported, "The US Department of Commerce last year approved licenses for exports of discharge-type weapons, including electro-shock stun guns, shock batons, and similar devices, to 45 countries, among them a large number where the State Department has reported the use of torture against detainees. Those countries include Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, Ghana, Honduras, India, Jordan, Lebanon, Mexico, Peru, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Thailand and Venezuela. More than 60 US manufacturers sought licenses to export such equipment during 2002. " What this officer did was wrong. And who is to say that the information he got out of the guy was correct? If you torture a guy enough, he'd say he was the guy who kidnapped the Lindburgh baby. Beatings in interrogations is what the Gestapo used to do to get their information to save the Reich. How can we show the world that they must abide by the rules of the international community if we throw them out and do whatever the hell we want? Just think of the lesson we showed with Iraq: Showing Saddam that the UN cannot be dismissed by dismissing the mandate of the UN ourselves and going on our own in a unilateral attack.

Correctamundo. I have 2 finals tomorrow. But I did happen to catch the news today and saw everything. Also, the media didn't mention that the commander of US forces in Iraq said he doesn't think that this arrest will curb the attacks on US troops. And funny how this comes out at the same time that Halliburton is found to have gouged the US for $67 million in overcharging for oil from Iraq. I just wonder if at this trial if the US brings up like his 1988 gassing of that village [the name escapes me right now] that he can respond, "Hey you know I'd been doing stuff like that to my people...and you gave me the weapons that made it possible." Granted, I am happy that the asshole that is Saddam is captured but I don't think the precedent we set in doing so was the best thing to do for our foreign policy or as a precedent for the world [see India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine etc. saying "We can pre-emptively invade a country that has WMD to make ourselves secure." That's a scarier prospect to me than any WMD Iraq could have had.

Nader won't run. He actually said before if he did, he would possibly run in the Republican primary.

I appreciate KROYKAH!