LowerCaseRepublican

Nuke, if I'm wrong then show me with the facts. Come on, Nuke, I've posted plenty of them from reputable sources so if you want to say "That's BS", you better have information to back it up.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/thanks.html

Corporate welfare is in place simply because those companies donate heavily to political campaigns. The poor can't donate and thusly, they get f***ed.

I4E, just because you don't believe them doesn't invalidate them. Show some facts showing that they're wrong. This may be a poor analogy but like some people don't believe the Holocaust didn't happen doesn't mean that 11 million+ people were not killed in concentration camps by Hitler.

Flash, the security wall is 6% fence...so electrifying it wouldn't do much good as 94% of it is concrete. Even before Yasir Arafat's statement on 13 April 2002 condemning terrorism Arafat had repeatedly condemned suicide bombings both in Arabic and in English. Here are just two examples obtained from BBC monitoring. 1. On Palestinian TV, on 28 March 2002, at 20:08 GMT, Arafat stated in Arabic: "On this occasion, I would like once again to reiterate our condemnation of yesterday's operation in Netanya, in which a number of innocent Israeli civilians were killed and wounded. This operation constitutes a deviation from our policy and a violation of our national and human values. I affirm our commitment to working toward an immediate cease-fire, as we informed General Zinni. We highly value his efforts. We informed him that we are ready for the immediate implementation of the Tenet's work plan without conditions, and without prejudicing any of its articles. Also, we have informed him of our readiness to implement the Mitchell Report recommendations in cooperation with the four-way US-Russian-European-UN committee headed by Gen. Zinni." 2. On December 16, 2001, in a speech on the occasion of Id al-Fitr in Ramallah (Gaza Palestine Satellite Channel Television, in Arabic, on 16 December 2001 at 16:00 GMT) Arafat stated in Arabic: "Today, I emphasize once again the complete and immediate halt to all armed operations. Once again, I call for a complete halt to all operations, especially suicidal operations, which we have always condemned. We will punish all those who carry out and mastermind such operations. This also applies to the firing of mortar shells, which have no objective but to provide an excuse for theIsraeli attacks on us, our people, our children, and our women. Any violation of this decision will be considered an attempt to harm the higher national interests of our people and of our Arab nation." Although the Camp David summit ended almost three months before the beginning of the Intifada, and negotiations continued between the Israelis and Palestinians even as violence raged, many pro-Israelicommentators maintain that Arafat launched the Intifada as a direct response to the Camp David proposals, just because he prefers war to peace! This is belied by all the evidence. The Intifada was a reaction to years of worsening conditions in the occupied territories during the period of the so-called peace process, when Israel doubled the number of settlers on occupied Palestinian land, and tightened its noose around the Palestinian population. But the spark was Ariel Sharon's visit to the Haram Al-Sharif with 1,000 armed men on 28 September 2000, a deliberate desecration of a holy site whose purpose was to send a message that Israel would always control the Palestinians by brute force. The Palestinian protests that broke out in reaction to Sharon's incursion included stone-throwing but absolutely no firearms. The Israeli response, however, was lethal. The New York Times reported on 30 September 2000 that: "Four Palestinians were killed at Haram al Sharif, known to Jews as Temple Mount, in a second day of rioting that began when Ariel Sharon, the rightist opposition leader, visited the Muslim compound on Thursday to assert Jewish claims to the site. Wearing full riot gear, Israelipolice officers today stormed the Muslim area, where they rarely set foot, to disperse Palestinian youths who emerged from Friday prayer services to stone first a police post at the Moghrabi Gate and then Jewish worshipers at the Western Wall." "Dr. Khaled Qurei, director of the Makhased [sic: Maqassad] Hospital on the Mount of Olives, said the hospital had treated more than 150 men, women and youths, many of whom were wounded by rubber bullets and some by live ammunition. The Israeli police denied that live bullets had been used." Source: "Battle at Jerusalem Holy Site Leaves 4 Dead and 200 Hurt," New York Times, 30 September 2000. The report did not contain even an allegation by theIsraelis that any Palestinian had used firearms. But Israel's killing of unarmed protestors sparked wider protests throughout the occupied territories. Within weeks, dozens of Palestinians, almost all unarmed civilians, both inside Israel and in the occupied territories had been killed. Despite the clear chronological order of the events, Israel and its supporters in the US media continue to maintain that Arafat and the Palestinian Authority launched the Intifada. The high-profile investigative committee headed by former US Senator George Mitchell stated in its final report that: "The [Government of Israel] asserts that the immediate catalyst for the violence was the breakdown of the Camp David negotiations on July 25, 2000 and the "widespread appreciation in the international community of Palestinian responsibility for the impasse." In this view, Palestinian violence was planned by the PA leadership, and was aimed at "provoking and incurring Palestinian casualties as a means of regaining the diplomatic initiative." The report continued: "In their submissions, the parties traded allegations about the motivation and degree of control exercised by the other. However, we were provided with no persuasive evidence that the Sharon visit was anything other than an internal political act; neither were we provided with persuasive evidence that the PA planned the uprising." "Accordingly, we have no basis on which to conclude that there was a deliberate plan by the PA to initiate a campaign of violence at the first opportunity; or to conclude that there was a deliberate plan by the GOI to respond with lethal force." Finally, the Mitchell committee agreed that: "The Sharon visit did not cause the "Al-Aqsa Intifada." But it was poorly timed and the provocative effect should have been foreseen; indeed it was foreseen by those who urged that the visit be prohibited. More significant were the events that followed: the decision of the Israeli police on September 29 to use lethal means against the Palestinian demonstrators; and the subsequent failure, as noted above, of either party to exercise restraint." [source: SHARM EL-SHEIKH FACT-FINDING COMMITTEE FINAL REPORT, April 30, 2001] Despite the report's effort to lay blame on both sides, and thus appear even-handed, it is clear that on the one-handIsraeli violence fuelled and led to the spread of the uprising, and that there is no reason to accept Israel's claims that the Palestinian Authority planned or started the uprising. My intent as stated in the post below my "with you charts and pictures of flaming comic figures" shows that there is another side in this debate and that Israel has a direct role in the terrorism it receives. There's wrong on both sides but way to assertt the false premise of what I believe. Strike two, buddy. And a FEW innocent civilians? 85% of the Palestinians killed are innocent collateral damage.

Then we bail out Philip Morris when paying out the payments to victims would put them under.

Don't forget about our funding of Colombia and their civil war etc.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/STA686002.htm According to the artists, the installation was made to "call attention to how weak people left alone can be capable of horrible things." Also saying, I wanted to show how incomprehensible it is that a mother-of-two, who is a lawyer no less, can do such a thing." The piece was actually condemning and against the Palestinian suicide bombing. But I guess the diplomat was a member of the Rudolph Guiliani School of Art: "If I'm too stupid to get the meaning, it's not art!" photos: PS: To make up for their diplomat acting in such an asinine way, Sharon praised the diplomat saying that he was fighting against anti-semitism. PPS: One of the artists was a Jewish man, and he didn't hate Jewish people. This was also an anti-genocide event. Put two and two together.

Note: I'm not saying Palestinians are blameless...I'm just posting facts so people don't make ignorant statements and people can get both sides of a debate.

I4E, nice try: Sources: This first number is from the Palestine Red Crescent Society, a national humanitarian society that provides a wide range of health, social and other humanitarian services for the Palestinian People throughout the Middle East. It is also an observer member in the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC). The second number is direct from the Israeli Defense Forces. From the Health Development Information and Policy Institute: The exact number of Palestinians killed during the current uprising is very difficult to ascertain. This is caused in part by the chaos that ensued following the invasion of the West Bank during March and April 2002. The estimates range from the number given above to 2,782. Link found here: http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/..._fact_sheet.htm Children killed in the first month of the uprising: Source: http://www.btselem.org/ It also turns out that over 80 Palestinian children were killed before the 1st Israeli child was killed in the most recent intifada. At least 127 Palestinians were killed before the first Jewish Israeli lost his life on Israeli land. (The Palestine Red Crescent Society, a very reliable medical organization gives this number as 147, but in the interest of using the same source for Israelis and Palestinians, we are using the numbers provided by the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem.) During the first month 121 Palestinians and 11 Israelis -- virtually all either illegal settlers or soldiers on Palestinian territory -- were killed. Included in the number of Palestinian dead are three Palestinian women and girls who died due to restrictions placed on their movement by the Israeli military: Ten-year old 'Ala Hamdan 'Abd al-'Aziz Ahmad died when her appendix burst after Israeli soldiers prevented her father from taking her to a hospital. Twenty-seven-year-old Na'im 'Attallah a-'Abd Ahmad Huas, a liver patient, died after Israeli soldiers prevented her from obtaining dialysis treatment at a hospital in Nablus. Masiona Hussein, age 60, a diabetes patient, died after being forced to travel to the hospital along treacherous paths because of physical roadblocks placed on the main roadways by Israeli forces. Source: Palestine Red Crescent Society and the IDF Source: Health Development Information and Policy Institute and All For Israel Source: Health Development Information and Policy Institute Source: Guardian Unlimited www.guardian.co.uk

Flame on! Man, you're 80% estimate is even more insane than right wing zionist Daniel Pipes who only thinks it's 10-15% but still advocates nuking all of them. And Flash, you really hurt your case saying "I don't need to read sources" to come to your conclusion. It's a very ignorant statement. The Army of God murders people, where is your statement that since there are violent acts, murders, etc. in the Bible that 80% of Christians must support terrorist acts like the ones perpetrated by the Army of God.

I actually, just from memory and not going to look, posted at least 3 with lots of charts as well.

ZERO mentions of Osama bin Laden in his SotU speech.

Pale Hose Jon, save your breath. We've gone through this in the Israel/Palestine thread where I posted a bunch of articles and I4E could not refute the claims made in them.

Did anybody else hear about that whackjob Israeli diplomat in Sweden and his sabotaging that piece of art a few days ago?

I'm just saying that there is a bias in the media, owned by companies who donate heavily to the Republican party & get lots of benefits from Republican administrations. So of course they're gonna try to kiss ass.

I'm just saying, if they are going to tout how many countries they have then they need to be reminded that damn near the entire world didn't want the war. Bilateralism is changing definitions just like WMD is in the Bush camp...papers, old bombs buried since the 1980s...wow, what weapons! And hey, with all the WMD threats that Bush KNEW were in Iraq...where are they at? Oh yeah, we pulled out our WMD finding crew. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1119380,00.html First Bushie says that "Iraq and Al-Qaeda have ties" then after that falls apart it's WMD. Then after they can't find WMD, they say "he was a brutal dictator". Then they refuse to acknowledge that they gave him the weapons to unleash his brutality or the fact that we gassed our own people in the 1950s. In 1951, San Francisco was the target of a top secret US Army project where they sprayed a chemical called syrussia markacide [sp?] 11 patients in a San Fran hospital developed ailments related and one man, Edward Mevin, died as a result. In 1956, the US Army released Operation Big City on Manhattan using specially equipped cars with 2ndary exhaust pipes and fan propelled release cases held by operatives spread a bacteria called bacillus globuli on an unaware New York population. 10 years later, they returned with bacteria filled light bulbs throwing them in front of oncoming trains to see how far the bacteria would travel outside the subway ventilation system. In 1953, CIA operative Frank Olson was given by another CIA scientist but Olson didn't know it was spiked with LSD. 9 days later, Olson threw himself out of a window. It took the government 22 years to acknowledge it's role in Olson's death. In January 1953, doctors secretly working with the US Army injected 450 mg of a hallucinagen called EA 1298 to civilian Harold Blowers who was in the hospital suffering bouts of depression. He immediately launched into spasms with his body going rigid, teeth clenched and foaming at the mouth after the injection. He died soon after. It took the family 15 years of court battles with the US government to get an admission of the US government's guilt in the matter. So, next time you think that we won't get gassed by our own government and think it can't happen here, it did. The Bush administration has not yet shown one legal reason for us to go to war and why his chimp ass shouldn't be in the ICC facing war crimes charges.

MrEye, here is a much bigger list of countries: Algeria, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Sweden Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emerites, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe - and 103 other countries. That's the Coalition of the Unwilling. And MrEye, you might be interested to read about how many actual troops were sent and the economic trade agreements that Bush essentially used to bribe countries like Australia into getting behind the issue of Iraq. But hey, who can forget about the 2000 Moroccan helper monkeys they sent to Iraq?

If Bush would have given a speech like that then he would have been hailed as the 2nd coming of the messiah and they would have lauded his determination and prowess. They being the corporate media.

Men, Women and Gender in US History 1877-present [it's a history class with an emphasis on women's history] European Working Class History 1750-present Comparative Politics World History 1300-present Earth's Physical Systems

http://www.drugwarfacts.com/marijuan.htm A Johns Hopkins study published in May 1999, examined marijuana's effects on cognition on 1,318 participants over a 15 year period. Researchers reported "no significant differences in cognitive decline between heavy users, light users, and nonusers of cannabis." They also found "no male-female differences in cognitive decline in relation to cannabis use." "These results ... seem to provide strong evidence of the absence of a long-term residual effect of cannabis use on cognition," they concluded. http://www.drugwarfacts.com/medicalm.htm

Spiff, it's only 6% fence.

It's a jobless recovery, so companies are making more money and being more productive but that does not necessarily mean, more jobs are being created. With all the jobs he's lost, he has not created 1 new net job in his 4 years as President. [And I use that term loosely because he never really won and his daddy's golfing buddies helped cover up the mass voter fraud that delivered him Florida] The Democratic candidates running are going to thin out fairly soon and when that happens, there is going to be a LOT of support. Most Dems have adopted the hyperbolic idea of "Anybody but Bush 2004" to show their displeasure w/ the current administration. After the Dem candidate is picked there is going to be a lot of money that will be coming his way [soros is donating $10 million via himself, PACs etc.] Remember, the Iowa caucuses pretty much mean nothing. Clinton lost in his and still won the nod. McCain trounced Bush there and lost the Republican nomination. Gephardt beat Dukakis but lost the nod. When the s*** hits the fan, the anti-war majority [Yes, Nuke and others...remember the polls that a majority of this country was against a unilateral military operation without a UN resolution. ] will mobilize against the illegal squatter in Chief.

For those that did not see the SotU speech here's a quick recap: Did anybody else notice that WMD changed to like "WMD related programs" or some other Orwellian bulls*** because they still can't find any WMD and therefore still lied to America and the world as a reason to kill off over 10,000 Iraqis and over 500 American troops?

Nuke, read the article...it clearly says it is a CONCRETE fence.