Flash Tizzle Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 That club is ready to plunge. Cameron, McLemore and Rhodes are all free agents. Edgar might retire. They can't wait to get Garcia outta town. After reading the comment made about Rhodes being a free agent, I was compiling a list of a bullpen scenario in 2004. If Colon isnt resigned, how much of a possibility would it be to have...... Arthur Rhodes (who carries a 3.5 million salary) Demaso Marte Flash Gordon Scott Sullivan Kelly Wunsch Billy Koch Scott Schoenweiss (if not given a 5th starter spot) Danny Wright (long relief) Theres more, I just ignored all the minor league bums who came up during the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 "Arthur Rhodes (who carries a 3.5 million salary) Demaso Marte Flash Gordon Scott Sullivan Kelly Wunsch Billy Koch Scott Schoenweiss (if not given a 5th starter spot) Danny Wright (long relief)" Thats roughly 18M/yr dedicated towards the bullpen. For a team that has about a 60M/yr limit it is plain STUPID to invst almost 1/3rd of it in a bullpen. The Sox don't need Rhodes when they have Marte and Wunsch. Either Sullivan or Gordon, and maybe both, will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 "Arthur Rhodes (who carries a 3.5 million salary) Demaso Marte Flash Gordon Scott Sullivan Kelly Wunsch Billy Koch Scott Schoenweiss (if not given a 5th starter spot) Danny Wright (long relief)" Thats roughly 18M/yr dedicated towards the bullpen. For a team that has about a 60M/yr limit it is plain STUPID to invst almost 1/3rd of it in a bullpen. The Sox don't need Rhodes when they have Marte and Wunsch. Either Sullivan or Gordon, and maybe both, will be gone. Thanks for the reality check. I wasnt sure about their free agency situations or current salaries. If Gordon and Sullivan both leave KW needs to sign some good relievers to take their place. So many holes to fill before next season...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If its true, then KW isn't the right man for the gm job and I don't know who is...well I do know This would be a horrible move by JR. Right when fans are coming back you stab them in the back. I'll take the wait and see approach though. Pat Gillick. Gillick will only be considered if he tosses buffet tables and screams, "b****ES!", to the players. He'd have to come cheap too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Maggs had good numbers overall this year....something like .315 30 100. But you remember that he makes $9 mill, and those numbers become s***. If a guy is going to be making $9 mill, I'm going to want him to put up .325 35 120 numbers at the very LEAST. He makes $14 mill next year. What I want out of a guy that makes $14 mill is either a guy who takes huge strides FORWARD(which he did not do this year....he took a stride backwards....in 02, he hit like .320 40 135 approximately....he had nothing CLOSE to that this year). If we can get anything decent for Maggs this year on the trading market(and we will), Maggs will NOT be on the White Sox roster next year. Also, for Konerko, if Baltimore is somewhat interested, talk to them. If LA is somewhat interested, talk to them. And if they both want Konerko....let them fight for him, get the best offer you can, and accept it. Notice I said the best offer and not the offer where we can shed the most payroll. If LA wants to give us Shawn Green and Paul Lo Duca, do it....we ain't cutting payroll(in fact, we are adding it), but we would be improving the team tenfold. Maggs is as good as gone....and I hope Konerko is gone too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Maggs had good numbers overall this year....something like .315 30 100. But you remember that he makes $9 mill, and those numbers become s***. If a guy is going to be making $9 mill, I'm going to want him to put up .325 35 120 numbers at the very LEAST. He makes $14 mill next year. What I want out of a guy that makes $14 mill is either a guy who takes huge strides FORWARD(which he did not do this year....he took a stride backwards....in 02, he hit like .320 40 135 approximately....he had nothing CLOSE to that this year). If we can get anything decent for Maggs this year on the trading market(and we will), Maggs will NOT be on the White Sox roster next year. Also, for Konerko, if Baltimore is somewhat interested, talk to them. If LA is somewhat interested, talk to them. And if they both want Konerko....let them fight for him, get the best offer you can, and accept it. Notice I said the best offer and not the offer where we can shed the most payroll. If LA wants to give us Shawn Green and Paul Lo Duca, do it....we ain't cutting payroll(in fact, we are adding it), but we would be improving the team tenfold. Maggs is as good as gone....and I hope Konerko is gone too. Lets not forget Maggs lack of clutch hitting and propensity for hitting into DPs. DPs dont count as two outs on their BA.................but its still 2 outs. I love Maggs. Would i pay this guy 14 mil or add more balance to our roster? Give me the balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 the only guy on the team this year that made strides forward is clee, and maybe frank if youre generous.... but i want frank, i want maggs, i want buehrle the rest can go if they must.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Maggs had good numbers overall this year....something like .315 30 100. But you remember that he makes $9 mill, and those numbers become s***. If a guy is going to be making $9 mill, I'm going to want him to put up .325 35 120 numbers at the very LEAST. He makes $14 mill next year. What I want out of a guy that makes $14 mill is either a guy who takes huge strides FORWARD(which he did not do this year....he took a stride backwards....in 02, he hit like .320 40 135 approximately....he had nothing CLOSE to that this year). If we can get anything decent for Maggs this year on the trading market(and we will), Maggs will NOT be on the White Sox roster next year. Also, for Konerko, if Baltimore is somewhat interested, talk to them. If LA is somewhat interested, talk to them. And if they both want Konerko....let them fight for him, get the best offer you can, and accept it. Notice I said the best offer and not the offer where we can shed the most payroll. If LA wants to give us Shawn Green and Paul Lo Duca, do it....we ain't cutting payroll(in fact, we are adding it), but we would be improving the team tenfold. Maggs is as good as gone....and I hope Konerko is gone too. Lets not forget Maggs lack of clutch hitting and propensity for hitting into DPs. DPs dont count as two outs on their BA.................but its still 2 outs. I love Maggs. Would i pay this guy 14 mil or add more balance to our roster? Give me the balance. EXACTLY If we get rid of Maggs without having to take on much of his salary, and because of it, we can sign Cabrera and Castillo/Alomar, and then maybe a cheaper RFer such as Reggie Sanders, and possibly even a good reliever or two such as Hawkins, Hasegawa, Rhodes, Foulke, or Gordon, or using that extra money to ensure Colon stays, and our money is well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Maggs had good numbers overall this year....something like .315 30 100. But you remember that he makes $9 mill, and those numbers become s***. If a guy is going to be making $9 mill, I'm going to want him to put up .325 35 120 numbers at the very LEAST. He makes $14 mill next year. What I want out of a guy that makes $14 mill is either a guy who takes huge strides FORWARD(which he did not do this year....he took a stride backwards....in 02, he hit like .320 40 135 approximately....he had nothing CLOSE to that this year). If we can get anything decent for Maggs this year on the trading market(and we will), Maggs will NOT be on the White Sox roster next year. Also, for Konerko, if Baltimore is somewhat interested, talk to them. If LA is somewhat interested, talk to them. And if they both want Konerko....let them fight for him, get the best offer you can, and accept it. Notice I said the best offer and not the offer where we can shed the most payroll. If LA wants to give us Shawn Green and Paul Lo Duca, do it....we ain't cutting payroll(in fact, we are adding it), but we would be improving the team tenfold. Maggs is as good as gone....and I hope Konerko is gone too. Lets not forget Maggs lack of clutch hitting and propensity for hitting into DPs. DPs dont count as two outs on their BA.................but its still 2 outs. I love Maggs. Would i pay this guy 14 mil or add more balance to our roster? Give me the balance. EXACTLY If we get rid of Maggs without having to take on much of his salary, and because of it, we can sign Cabrera and Castillo/Alomar, and then maybe a cheaper RFer such as Reggie Sanders, and possibly even a good reliever or two such as Hawkins, Hasegawa, Rhodes, Foulke, or Gordon, or using that extra money to ensure Colon stays, and our money is well spent. Whatever we do, we need to add speed and defense, along with some left handed bats..............Maybe these Einsteins will one day figure out you CANT win in the playoffs just by bashing the ball. Look at the Giants and Braves. Errors are killing them. Look at the Redsox. Six runs a game? Not in the playoffs. You win by pitching, defense, speed, timely hitting, and having the drive to win at all costs. The sox arent even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 stays, and our money is well spent. Whatever we do, we need to add speed and defense, along with some left handed bats..............Maybe these Einsteins will one day figure out you CANT win in the playoffs just by bashing the ball. Look at the Giants and Braves. Errors are killing them. Look at the Redsox. Six runs a game? Not in the playoffs. You win by pitching, defense, speed, timely hitting, and having the drive to win at all costs. The sox arent even close. I hate to do this, because it kills me inside, but if you want a great example, look no further then about 8 miles north from the Cell. They are 1 game away from becoming the first Chicago team since 1917 to win a playoff series PERIOD....why? Pitching, defense, and timely hitting....along with a little speed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Whatever we do, we need to add speed and defense, along with some left handed bats..............Maybe these Einsteins will one day figure out you CANT win in the playoffs just by bashing the ball. Look at the Giants and Braves. Errors are killing them. Look at the Redsox. Six runs a game? Not in the playoffs. You win by pitching, defense, speed, timely hitting, and having the drive to win at all costs. The sox arent even close. I hate to do this, because it kills me inside, but if you want a great example, look no further then about 8 miles north from the Cell. They are 1 game away from becoming the first Chicago team since 1917 to win a playoff series PERIOD....why? Pitching, defense, and timely hitting....along with a little speed too. Yes. Their lineup sucks, actually. IT becomes even worse because Sosa is a horrible clutch hitter. Still, theyre playing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 who would you rather give up: konerko or maggs? if you give up konerko, that ofsets magg's increase in salary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 If this is true, someone cut JRs throat please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 who would you rather give up: konerko or maggs? if you give up konerko, that ofsets magg's increase in salary... Konerko makes $8 mill, Maggs makes $14 mill. We'll have to take on atleast some of Konerko's salary if traded, so we are looking at dumping $7 mill for Konerko and dumping $14 mill(and possibly more) in getting rid of Maggs. For Konerko, they best you are most likely going to get is a decent prospect or two and a fringe prospect or two as well. For Maggs, you could get quite a bit....possibly one of the real good relievers in Anaheim, Amezaga(their up-coming SS), and another arm or two as well, OR some good arms from that LA bullpen, Cezar Izturis, and if we got real lucky, possibly Dave Roberts as well, OR we might be able to swing a trade with San Fran where we get Grissom, their most expensive reliever, and a decent prospect from SF, OR we might be able to get Juan Rivera, Nick Johnson, and maybe Jon Lieber from NY, OR Melvin Mora, Damian Moss, Luis Matos, and Jerry Hairston Jr from Baltimore....there are almost endless possibilities. I think the only teams you can rule out are all the teams from the AL Central(with the exception of Cleveland), Tampa, Texas, Oakland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Montral, Milwaukee, Cincinatti, St. Louis, and Colorado. That leaves you with about half the teams who might take on Maggs(though some are highly unlikely...Seattle probably won't, nor will Toronto....you can probably add Florida, Pittsburgh, and possibly San Diego to that list too). There would be a lot of teams interested in Maggs, and we could get a hell of a lot for him. Not only that, but because it would free up so much room, there's a possibility that we up Bart's offer from $10 mill a year to $13 mill a year and we still have $11 more mill to work with(or possibly more, depending on how much Colon will make in this first year if we hypothetically sign him), and that leaves us with that much extra money to sign other FA's. I would much, much rather trade Maggs. I like to think about what the Sox are going to do this year rather then worry about what they will do in 05 and 06, etc. If a move makes the team better in the short run and doesn't necessarily hurt them in the long run(like for example, trading for Alomar and Everett....sure it hurt the minor league system, but that doesn't mean that we are in bad shape....we have a decent minor league system, and there is always someone available via trade, FA, or by the minor league system if a need arises). Doesn't matter in this scenario....trading Maggs helps us this year(meaning 04), next year, and possibly even come 07, 08, and 09 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 If this is true, someone cut JRs throat please... He won't. He's already burned many bridges with the fans two times....1 time for being pro-strike in 94 when his team had a great shot at winning it all, and another in 97 for the famous white-flag trade. I don't think with him getting some actual profit this year and that quite a bit of people actually showed up(I think the attendance overall was just under 2 mill for the year) along with the increase in ticket price that he'll literally lower the payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Maggs had good numbers overall this year....something like .315 30 100. But you remember that he makes $9 mill, and those numbers become s***. If a guy is going to be making $9 mill, I'm going to want him to put up .325 35 120 numbers at the very LEAST. He makes $14 mill next year. What I want out of a guy that makes $14 mill is either a guy who takes huge strides FORWARD(which he did not do this year....he took a stride backwards....in 02, he hit like .320 40 135 approximately....he had nothing CLOSE to that this year). If we can get anything decent for Maggs this year on the trading market(and we will), Maggs will NOT be on the White Sox roster next year. Also, for Konerko, if Baltimore is somewhat interested, talk to them. If LA is somewhat interested, talk to them. And if they both want Konerko....let them fight for him, get the best offer you can, and accept it. Notice I said the best offer and not the offer where we can shed the most payroll. If LA wants to give us Shawn Green and Paul Lo Duca, do it....we ain't cutting payroll(in fact, we are adding it), but we would be improving the team tenfold. Maggs is as good as gone....and I hope Konerko is gone too. Lets not forget Maggs lack of clutch hitting and propensity for hitting into DPs. DPs dont count as two outs on their BA.................but its still 2 outs. I love Maggs. Would i pay this guy 14 mil or add more balance to our roster? Give me the balance. EXACTLY If we get rid of Maggs without having to take on much of his salary, and because of it, we can sign Cabrera and Castillo/Alomar, and then maybe a cheaper RFer such as Reggie Sanders, and possibly even a good reliever or two such as Hawkins, Hasegawa, Rhodes, Foulke, or Gordon, or using that extra money to ensure Colon stays, and our money is well spent. Some of those guys might be possibilities but Foulke would never come back here. They treated him like crap enough here im pretty sure. Tragically our ownership doens't understand karma....or good management for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 gordon wont be back unless kotch is traded, gordon wants to close.... and for all of you wanting to give up maggs, what are you thinkin? if payroll has to go, sad to say, let paulie go buh bye... maggs is flagship behind frank.... Maggs had good numbers overall this year....something like .315 30 100. But you remember that he makes $9 mill, and those numbers become s***. If a guy is going to be making $9 mill, I'm going to want him to put up .325 35 120 numbers at the very LEAST. He makes $14 mill next year. What I want out of a guy that makes $14 mill is either a guy who takes huge strides FORWARD(which he did not do this year....he took a stride backwards....in 02, he hit like .320 40 135 approximately....he had nothing CLOSE to that this year). If we can get anything decent for Maggs this year on the trading market(and we will), Maggs will NOT be on the White Sox roster next year. Also, for Konerko, if Baltimore is somewhat interested, talk to them. If LA is somewhat interested, talk to them. And if they both want Konerko....let them fight for him, get the best offer you can, and accept it. Notice I said the best offer and not the offer where we can shed the most payroll. If LA wants to give us Shawn Green and Paul Lo Duca, do it....we ain't cutting payroll(in fact, we are adding it), but we would be improving the team tenfold. Maggs is as good as gone....and I hope Konerko is gone too. Lets not forget Maggs lack of clutch hitting and propensity for hitting into DPs. DPs dont count as two outs on their BA.................but its still 2 outs. I love Maggs. Would i pay this guy 14 mil or add more balance to our roster? Give me the balance. EXACTLY If we get rid of Maggs without having to take on much of his salary, and because of it, we can sign Cabrera and Castillo/Alomar, and then maybe a cheaper RFer such as Reggie Sanders, and possibly even a good reliever or two such as Hawkins, Hasegawa, Rhodes, Foulke, or Gordon, or using that extra money to ensure Colon stays, and our money is well spent. Some of those guys might be possibilities but Foulke would never come back here. They treated him like crap enough here im pretty sure. Tragically our ownership doens't understand karma....or good management for that matter. I do agree. I was just throwing some names out there, and I really didn't feel like putting Antonio Osuna's name on the list, so I figured I'd go with a different Sox reliever who's going to be a FA next year that is in the playoffs this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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