BigHurt4evah Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Sweet artical on Colon's effect on the rotation I dunno if anybody's read this, but it's a REALLY good article that makes ya wanna piss your pants thinkin bout the upcoming season... ooo the dominance! (this is my first link, let's hope it works, if not go to whitesox.com and click on the main article by Mychael Urban) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Awesome article. Thanks for the post. The link worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt4evah Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 thank YOU for the friendly enthusiasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Nice article. I'm expecting at least one back-to-back shutouts from mark and bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 That was a sweet article. I got excited while reading it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxPride3035 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Like everyone has said, nice article! I especially like the quote from JM "Hopefully, it will keep the winning streaks longer, and the losing streaks shorter." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 nice article.. would be cool if we do have that kind of feeding fest here...... wish garland and others will join in the feast...........week long stretches of wins would be a nice thing to see.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 i hope the feeding frenzy trickles down to wright and garland...they are the key..if they both improve we walk away with the division Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 they better step up.... it would be nice to not have to worry day to day......i think if i were jm i would start thinking about keepin mark and bart a day or so apart... at least we know we get one win per series lol.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt4evah Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 I don't want to sound overconfident, but if the 3,4,5 pitchers come together, we could be talking one badass team. I mean with our offense solidified, our 1-2 starters solid, and our bullpen strong as ever, I think they key is how Garland, Wright and mystery man #5 do. I think if we have 15 wins from garland, 14 from wright, and 10 from #5, I think we could be talking 100 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 thats why im not getting too excited about this just yet........3,4,5 have yet to do something grand......we all know they are capable of it.... but we have yet to see it.......it would be awesome though if they could in fact pull this off........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 We could have won the division this year WITHOUT Colon.....easily. The Twins, in 2001, had a very good starting rotation(I'd say it was easily a top 5 in the AL....undoubtedly the best in the AL Central, and was beaten by really only the M's, Yanks, A's and possibly the Red Sox and/or Indians)...their offense had some pretty big hitters in it(Guzman had a great first half, but was hurt in the second half, Rivas had an excellent rookie season, Mientkiewicz hit .300 with decent power, Koskie had pretty good power and drove in over 100, Hunter finally broke out into a great player and was a two way threat offensively(with power and speed), and Lawton was pretty good in RF)....however, their bullpen sucked ass. Hawkins was closing....had an ERA near 6 and a WHIP near 2....Todd Ritchie-esque numbers out of your closer ain't good. Guardado was their lefty, and he had a decent year...Hector Carrasco and Bob Wells had years terrible years, and I believe Jack Cressend was also in their pen....can't remember the 6th guy off the top of my head, but I'm almost 100% sure he didn't have a stellar year. This Twins team, with an absolutely terrible bullpen, won 85 games, came 6 short of winning the division, and completely destroyed us as a team. The Twins, in 2002, had a decent starting rotation....basically a patchwork quilt, with the only starter that was healthy all year being Kyle Lohse....otherwise, every other starter that was in the rotation out of ST was on the DL at one time or another during the year(with both Mays and Radke missing atleast a month, and probably more....that kind of stuff doesn't register with me off the top of my head). Their offense had a down year as a whole....while Jones and the RF combo of Bobby Kielty and Dustan Mohr stepped up and played a huge role in their offenses large success(as well as Pierzynski), their offense had a regression. Rivas was out with a broken wrist for much of the first-half of the year, Guzman hit like .260 with 10 homers and about 20 walks, Mientkiewicz hit .260 with 10 homers or so as well, though he did have a good OBP, ....etc etc etc....you get the drill. However, their bullpen was incredibly good....Guardado had an incredibly good year closing, Hawkins had an incredible year as a setup guy, as did Romero....Jackson had an incredible year in the time he was pitching....Tony Fiore had an incredible year with his palm ball, Santana had an awesome year....everyone in their bullpen had a great year. With a mediocre offense, a mediocre rotation and one of the best bullpens in the majors, they won 94 games....and beat us quite easily 11-8 in the season series. If you want me to draw up a comparison of this for you.....the Sox offense was their key to success in 2000, with several guys having career years or breaking out of their shell up to that point in time(Valentin, Perry, Lee, Ordonez, Konerko....as well as others probably), and Thomas had his best year ever for an entire season of 162 games(though his 1994 season would have been MUCH better)....the Twins bullpen was their key to success in 2002 with several guys having career years or breaking out of their shell up to that point in time(Guardado, Hawkins, Romero, Fiore, Santana and to an extent, Jackson)....and I think the only guys that really broke out of their shell were Romero and Santana....because those two are very good pitchers with some nasty-ass stuff. I don't see much out of Fiore, Guardado and Hawkins(other than the fact that Hawkins can hit 97 occasionally on the gun....though it is a straight pitch. He's got to have other pitches, considering he was a starter at one point in his career...in fact, he started the game that Wells threw his perfect game...I'm not convinced about him though....all you have to do is look at the years before that)....they brought in Fetters who is going to hurt his neck sometime with his little head-jerk to the plate. If their bullpen can repeat its incredible success from last year, then they can compete and make it a great race...I personally don't see a lot of guys having the good years they had, and I don't see the Twins even coming close to competing....IM(somewhat biased)O, we would have won the division by about 10 games without Colon, Gordon, White, and Koch....we could have taken the team we had in September and beaten the s*** out of the Twins...because their bullpen would not have repeated its success from last year...or atleast that's what I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 makes ya wanna piss your pants thinkin bout the upcoming season... I haven't actually had that problem since I was 2 - and I don't remember the details, but I don't think I ever wanted to do that, ever. a desire for urinary incontenence -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 The article got me saying GO GO GO WHITESOX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 The article got me saying GO GO GO WHITESOX now that is a much better response to the article than urinating in one's clothes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 IF they do NOT pull it off, the last person we can blame is KW...hint, hint...hsc. But, seriously. 1927 Yankees, we are coming to dismantle the standard you have set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 wsf you seem to foreget that the twins took it all last year and their bull pen was ailing...........what makes you so sure they cant do it again with that same ailing pen???? see what the twins have used to their advantage is the fact that they play basic ball... get em over and get em in.. while we are always hitting for fences and foregot the basics.......we may have a great pen thus far but.. colon and mark cant do it all....rauch , wright, garland are going to have to step up or were going to have problems every 3rd,4th,5th day.........(or how ever jm splits it up, which quite frankly i would split up bart and mark and put one at the #1 spot and one around the #3 spot but thats just me).......anyway, if they dont step it up were going to have trouble... and we also need for our lineup to do alot of magic......not to mention were still shakey at a few positions in the defense.......were not perfect but were getting there.......i just cant get all hyped about it yet cause each and every time we get all excited it usually fails......... as for you heather.... your darn right ill blame kw if this fails... its always his fault anyhow............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 quite frankly i would split up bart and mark and put one at the #1 spot and one around the #3 spot but thats just me your darn right ill blame kw if this fails... its always his fault anyhow............ Splitting up Mark and Bartolo would do nothing. Where a guy is in the rotation means nothing. All that matters is that every 5th day, you go out, compete, and give your club a chance to win. Whether Jon, Dan, and Jon/Gil/Esteban/Josh are 2, 4, 5 or 4, 5, 2 or 5, 2, 4 doesn't matter -- all that matters is that they do what they're capable of, regardless of their spot in the rotation. And if Bartolo fails, blaming KW is completely insane. Getting Colon for who we got him for was the best trade the Sox have made since the "white flag trade" with the Giants in '97. It's up to him and the rest of the team to come through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Too sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 wsf you seem to foreget that the twins took it all last year and their bull pen was ailing...........what makes you so sure they cant do it again with that same ailing pen???? see what the twins have used to their advantage is the fact that they play basic ball... get em over and get em in.. while we are always hitting for fences and foregot the basics.......we may have a great pen thus far but.. colon and mark cant do it all....rauch , wright, garland are going to have to step up or were going to have problems every 3rd,4th,5th day.........(or how ever jm splits it up, which quite frankly i would split up bart and mark and put one at the #1 spot and one around the #3 spot but thats just me).......anyway, if they dont step it up were going to have trouble... and we also need for our lineup to do alot of magic......not to mention were still shakey at a few positions in the defense.......were not perfect but were getting there.......i just cant get all hyped about it yet cause each and every time we get all excited it usually fails......... as for you heather.... your darn right ill blame kw if this fails... its always his fault anyhow............ They won the division because of their great bullpen....and because it was overworked during the year, it was ailing at the end and during the postseason. Their starting pitching was no where to be found in the ALCS(aside from Mays in game 1), their bullpen sucked, and their offense sucked. That's why they got their asses handed to them in the ALCS by the Angels. They got damn lucky against Oakland....Oakland outplayed them in that series....but the damn inflateable balloon-type thing that they call a stadium really affected Oakland. That thing is the devil. They are a great fundamental team and have great defense....I haven't forgotten that. I also haven't forgotten that Lee is probably the worst player on the Sox when it comes to fundamentals and solid defense....which is a big reason I want to get rid of Lee. However, even with us being bad fundamentally, even with Lee in the lineup, and even with the cancers of Lofton and Clayton, even with the automatic out of MJ, even with Thomas having the worst year of his career....we managed to score about 850 runs and about 100 more runs than the Twins. When you improve that many things to an offense that is also ailing, (to a point of course - you can't say that an offense that scored 850 runs sucked) it is going to improve....I'll take a lineup that has Rowand, Crede, Olivo, Valentin at SS and an improved Thomas(which he was in September) over a lineup that has Lofton, Clayton, Valentin at 3B, MJ and a sucky Thomas(which he was from April-to-August) and I'd assume that the former would score atleast 50 more runs than the latter and with the improved defense as well(because I know I'd rather have Valentin at SS defensively than Choice, and Crede at 3B instead of Valentin, and most likely Rowand, who has decent range and a pretty good arm in CF over Lofton who has good but misguided range and a crappy arm any day....MJ and Olivo are both good defensively)....which will save around 25-50 runs during the year and probably an improved pitching staff to go along with it and I know that would bring the number to 50 atleast....Cooper alone would have done that with his coaching. That is a swing of about 100 runs....if you could take away 1 run from any game at random....and give it to us....how many more games do you think we would have won? Hell, you could even include the Angles 19-0 blowout in there as well....we would have lost the game 18-1....it doesn't matter. I'd guess atleast 10....and that doesn't include the fact that there would be games where we would give up less than 1 fewer run...and games where we would score more than just that 1 run....and games where nothing would happen, and games where we would actually give up more and then not score enough. This probably isn't right....but I assume you get the picture atleast. Also...I think Garland, Wright and #5 will be fine....Cooper is a very good pitching coach and he's been with our minor leaguers before...and I believe Garland, Wright and either Rauch or Stewart(dependant upon who gets the job....I'm not including Heredia or Loaiza because they weren't in our minor league system) and they will be decent just because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 And if Bartolo fails, blaming KW is completely insane. Somebody's going to have to take the blame. KW is the easy target..... although I don't think he will be blamed as vehemently as he is for the whole Todd Ritchie fiasco. Whether or not you think K Wells and/or J Fogg are ever going to become Cy Young award winners, KW deserves every bit of the blame he gets for what was easily the worst trade of the 2001-2002 offseason. I think most Sox fans see even one year of Bartolo as better than not having him at all..... considering we got him so cheap for this year at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Bartolo fails, blaming KW is completely insane. Somebody's going to have to take the blame. KW is the easy target Anytime you can get a front-line starter like Bartolo Colon without giving up any key players, you do it. If Bartolo flops for some reason (only injury could cause that, IMO), then that's Kenny Williams' fault? That's ridiculous. Yes, he's the easy target -- he's the guy who pulled the trigger on the deal. But, when a guy has a track record of winning, and when you can get him for basically nothing (of course you have to pay his $8.5M salary, but other than that we really gave up nothing), you get him and let the chips fall where they may. I would rather have a GM who makes gutsy choices and takes chances than a guy who is content to stay put, because the Sox don't have all the pieces to go all the way, so in order to get better, deals are going to have to be made -- and of course some will be good and some will be bad, but that's the nature of the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Bartolo fails, blaming KW is completely insane. Somebody's going to have to take the blame. KW is the easy target Anytime you can get a front-line starter like Bartolo Colon without giving up any key players, you do it. If Bartolo flops for some reason (only injury could cause that, IMO), then that's Kenny Williams' fault? That's ridiculous. I agree with you Clu. The point I was trying to make is that if Bartolo sucks, Bartolo should be the one who gets the blame..... not KW. But how many people have you heard blame Todd Ritchie for sucking ass last year? Not many. It was a shoulder thing, or it was Nardi, or he never threw his curve is what most posters here say in regards to Ritchie sucking donkey dong last season never really blaming TODD RITCHIE for constantly being lit up like a candlestick. After all, KW wasn't the one going out to the mound every 5 days. However, when a pitcher is about as effective as a BP pitcher and you give up 3 arms to get him, inevitably KW has to shoulder some of the blame. Sox fans know getting Bartolo was a great move..... if only for one year. God forbid Colon sucks this season, I think most Sox fans know that KW doesn't deserve any blame on this one. When you get a chance to pick up a 20-game winner for practically nothing, you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 real good points, CubKilla - real good thoughts from both you and clujer420 that I am reflecting on - thanks to you both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Bartolo fails, blaming KW is completely insane. Somebody's going to have to take the blame. KW is the easy target Anytime you can get a front-line starter like Bartolo Colon without giving up any key players, you do it. If Bartolo flops for some reason (only injury could cause that, IMO), then that's Kenny Williams' fault? That's ridiculous. I agree with you Clu. The point I was trying to make is that if Bartolo sucks, Bartolo should be the one who gets the blame..... not KW. But how many people have you heard blame Todd Ritchie for sucking ass last year? Not many. It was a shoulder thing, or it was Nardi, or he never threw his curve is what most posters here say in regards to Ritchie sucking donkey dong last season never really blaming TODD RITCHIE for constantly being lit up like a candlestick. After all, KW wasn't the one going out to the mound every 5 days. However, when a pitcher is about as effective as a BP pitcher and you give up 3 arms to get him, inevitably KW has to shoulder some of the blame. Sox fans know getting Bartolo was a great move..... if only for one year. God forbid Colon sucks this season, I think most Sox fans know that KW doesn't deserve any blame on this one. When you get a chance to pick up a 20-game winner for practically nothing, you do it. I agree with you regarding the Todd Ritchie trade. I think Kenny got a bit too anxious after the 2001 season and the debacle that occurred. He got David Wells for the 2001 season, and after that flopped big time (not only was he ineffective and injured, he caused problems with the team superstar), Kenny felt that he needed to get someone to help the Sox win in 2002. He thought Todd Ritchie could be that guy, and had he not been hurt, maybe he would have been -- afterall, for the first month and a half or so, he was our best pitcher. But, I think he lost sight of the future when he traded so many young arms to get a guy with a mediocre resume at best. Bad trade -- but there is no use on continuing to talk about it like so many people on this board are doing. It's over and done with. That said, he's made some good moves too. He got Damaso Marte for a guy that had pretty good minor league numbers, but probably wasn't going to find room on the Sox team anyway (at least not anytime soon), and he acquired Bartolo Colon. He's also brought in 2 quality bench players in Brian Daubach (thus addressing our need for a power left-hander) and Armando Rios. And we're 1 phone call by Kenny Rogers away from getting a guy with wins in the teens in 2002 with an ERA in the mid-3's for peanuts. If that happens, you'd have to say this off-season was very successful, and Kenny would deserve praise. But will he get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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