greg775 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Read these quotes from Bill James about the Red Sox. We need some winners!! We could not see that veteran leadership on television. We knew the Red Sox only as men wearing the distinctive uniform of the baseball player and, in essence, all baseball players look pretty much alike. Yet James knows more about those men than their numbers. He knows their mental makeup. "(Curt) Schilling personified courage and determination," James said. "(Kevin) Millar, who is always positive, always thinks the team is on the brink of victory, no matter what." Schilling and Millar aren't the only ones. "We have Jason Varitek, who is focused and intense and serious," James continued. "We have Keith Foulke, who is calm and quiet, but VERY confident and extremely poised. And we have David Ortiz, who doesn't get the same credit for leadership, but who is as positive as Millar, as confident as Foulke, as focused as Varitek and as determined as Schilling. "I don't think there is any way in the world we would have come back from that 3-0 deficit without this really unusual leadership cadre." Do you agree we need some guys who care? We may have some, do we have enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The Red Sox pay James' salary. /that's all you need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The thing I find ironic about that statement is that it came from Bill James, the one guy who has created new stats to measure players, yet it was their intangibles he is speaking so highly about. Whether Bill James is right or not, I can flat ass guarantee you all the OPS, OBP, Zone Rating and any other stats you want to throw out there, meant s*** when they were down 3-0. That is when internal fortitude matters. Granted they had to have the talent to be in that position, but all the talent in the world doesn't always get you there. INTANGIBLES DO MATTER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Great great post, Rex. I was trying to imply, too, that we need intangibles. I know money is always an issue but in my mind we need these type of players/winners. We have been missing stud types since Fisk in my opinion and even harold the quiet professional stud. We need some studs who care, the anti Hurts: Thome Damon Fisk Seaver Clemens Somebody on the Twins used to overachieving Larry Walker We need some Bosox types, long hair nutsos who want to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 And how bout what he said about Foulke. Good job getting rid of him, Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 We need some studs who care, the anti Hurts: In one of the most tense Sox games in my lifetime, 2003 against Minny, when PK tied the game in the throes of his big slump, Frank won that game in extra innings. And after all the speculation, he came into spring training and quickly defused all the 'Frank pissed about Ozzie' reports. He's never going to be Ray Lewis, okay, but don't believe we'll do as well w/o him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Strange to hear from Bill James. Here is quote from Larry Mahnken back in April in an article where he was defending Yankee player's character as a main ingredient in their success. He is argueing against the Bill James of the period. "A lot of people don't like to account for luck when analyzing baseball, or any sport. Everything that happens must happen for a reason, and it's usually attributed to something intangible, like guts or clutchness (Bill James scoffed at this attitude in his New Historical Baseball Abstract: "We are supposed to believe that athletes are athletes not merely because they are fast, strong quick and well conditioned, but because there is something special inside them, this "character" that comes to the fore in the crucible of athletic competition. The are athletes, in other words, because they are better people than the rest of us.")." So, had Kevin Brown or Orlando Hernandez had good games and the Bosox went out 4-1 or 4-2 would James still be talking about courage, intensity and determination? Did the Cardinals get swept because they lack courage, intensity and determination? James if full of bull feathers. Players are weeded out from Rookie ball onward, only the strong make the Bigs. The playoffs come down to who's hot and who's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 In one of the most tense Sox games in my lifetime, 2003 against Minny, when PK tied the game in the throes of his big slump, Frank won that game in extra innings. And after all the speculation, he came into spring training and quickly defused all the 'Frank pissed about Ozzie' reports. He's never going to be Ray Lewis, okay, but don't believe we'll do as well w/o him. I was at that game... f***ing amazing game it was. There were liek 12,000 people but it sounded like 40,000. I remember watching PK go to home to take his swings, I think, "Damnit, we're going to lose.." first pitch GONE! The crowd was astonished! After that we felt like we COULDN'T lose. Frank had like a 10 pitch at bat, and after a near miss, we just knew he was gonna hit one out, and he did! I will always remember that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I was at that game... f***ing amazing game it was. There were liek 12,000 people but it sounded like 40,000. I remember watching PK go to home to take his swings, I think, "Damnit, we're going to lose.." first pitch GONE! The crowd was astonished! After that we felt like we COULDN'T lose. Frank had like a 10 pitch at bat, and after a near miss, we just knew he was gonna hit one out, and he did! I will always remember that game. That is the most fun I've ever had watching a baseball game. Hearing the Twins announcers voices after Frank hit it was the coolest thing that I've ever seen watching a baseball game on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 I disagree that character doesn't matter. We're never going to get back to the playoffs until we get Fisk-type players again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I disagree that character doesn't matter. We're never going to get back to the playoffs until we get Fisk-type players again. Hey, no one said we could get back on topic While I do agree that character matters, I think first and foremost the players you get have to be good. If they suck they can have the best attitude and the most fight in the world, they are still going to lose to the more talented players most of the time...it's that simple. I want a manager with good character and a good attitude who can motivate a group of guys to run through a brick wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 You are right that we need good players. I'm worried that with the loss of Maggs and Hurt's coming down with injuries and fact we currently are looking at Harris and Uribe at second and short we could be close to becoming the Orioles for years to come. A team with no chance. Are we running out of good players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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