southsider2k5 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 So ... Frank can opt to stay for 2006 and the White Sox have no control over the issue, that's how it reads to me. I think even if Frank exercizes, the Sox can pay him $3.5 mil to go away. At least that's how I understood it when it was signed. Here is the full article http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/thestate/spor...all/4685046.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 I think it's $4mil... but don't quote me. And Tex.. I don't know what they do. But I do know that Frank deals with Jerry directly. Doesn't Frank have an agent dealing with the team!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Doesn't Frank have an agent dealing with the team!? Yep. Arn is his agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I think even if Frank exercizes, the Sox can pay him $3.5 mil to go away. At least that's how I understood it when it was signed. Here is the full article http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/thestate/spor...all/4685046.htm Thanks Mike, that is kind of what I'd remembered too. If Frank never comes back to normal from this injury, 2005 could be the last year the White Sox are contractually obligated to him. As you mentioned, they can pay him $3.5M and cut the cord. I hope he makes it back and is productive for a few more years, but it appears there's some doubt whether he'll ever be 100%. We'll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Neither Black Jack or maggs deserve that honor. That should be reserved for the best of the best. Number 35 qualifies. The day #35 calls it quits, that jersey should be retired IMMEDIATELY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 difference between Maggs and Baines is that Maggs is a greedy SOB who is looking to and wants to leave. Baines was traded and had no control over his situation. Screw Maggs. Plus SS2K4 is exactly correct. They are two completely different eras. You just can't compare them to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 difference between Maggs and Baines is that Maggs is a greedy SOB who is looking to and wants to leave. Baines was traded and had no control over his situation. Screw Maggs. Plus SS2K4 is exactly correct. They are two completely different eras. You just can't compare them to each other. God I hope that wanting to make more money, doesn't catch on with anyone else, then we're really in trouble. Soon average guys and gals will be leaving companies for bigger paychecks somewhere else. Then the American way of life is over. Start with a company and work there all your life and never complain that's the American way. Greedy assholes wanting to leave a job for another one that pays better :fyou anyone who does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 God I hope that wanting to make more money, doesn't catch on with anyone else, then we're really in trouble. Soon average guys and gals will be leaving companies for bigger paychecks somewhere else. Then the American way of life is over. Start with a company and work there all your life and never complain that's the American way. Greedy assholes wanting to leave a job for another one that pays better :fyou anyone who does that. Hmm, seems like he was making pretty good money here. Seems like he was treated pretty well here. So how many more millions does he want to make? We offered him a damn good contract, actually we met his requests for the money he wanted. Then he kept asking for more and more. It was ridiculous. He won't even allow the sox to give him a physical or see his medical documents. f*** him. He has wanted to leave from the beginning. I say let him leave. Plus all I was pointing out is why his number should not be retired and why Baines' was. I don't think the American way of life is all about being greedy, but if that is the way you feel then fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hmm, seems like he was making pretty good money here. Seems like he was treated pretty well here. So how many more millions does he want to make? We offered him a damn good contract, actually we met his requests for the money he wanted. Then he kept asking for more and more. It was ridiculous. He won't even allow the sox to give him a physical or see his medical documents. f*** him. He has wanted to leave from the beginning. I say let him leave. Plus all I was pointing out is why his number should not be retired and why Baines' was. I don't think the American way of life is all about being greedy, but if that is the way you feel then fine. It's all part of the chain. A guy out of work thinks a guy making $6 shoudln't b****, he has a job. Someone working two minimum wage jobs thinks someone earning $30,000 is greedy for b****ing about not making $40,000. The guy making $100,000 thinks the guy making $250,000 is an idiot for complaining about his stock options. I posted this once before. I want players who are competitive in everything. I've been around enough athletes in a couple sports and they all can tell you what other guys in their position are making and what their stats are. It isn't about how much money they are making, it's about are they making more than the other guy. Most of these guys would be happier making $2,000,000 if they were #1 in salary at their position, than making $4,000,000 and being 26th for their position. They are competitors. Don't ask them to check that at the negotiation table. Maggs gambled that he could get more later and will lose. I really do not care one way or the other. A healthy Maggs makes this a better team. We can dig another pot hole to fill the ones at SS and lead off. But we'll have a guy hitting 30-40 points lower in right, with less proven talent. Y'all can keep wishing and thinking that going a couple steps back will move them forward. Maybe someday it will work, but not in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 A healthy Maggs makes this a better team. That is the flaw in your whole arguement. Maggs has done nothing to demonstrate that he is even remotely healthy. Nothing. In fact all of his actions (and inaction) have seemed to indicate the opposite. I can't believe you are arguing to give 20% of our our payroll to a guy who could be the next Joe Charboneau, just as easily as he could be himself again. That is reckless at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 That is the flaw in your whole arguement. Maggs has done nothing to demonstrate that he is even remotely healthy. Nothing. In fact all of his actions (and inaction) have seemed to indicate the opposite. I can't believe you are arguing to give 20% of our our payroll to a guy who could be the next Joe Charboneau, just as easily as he could be himself again. That is reckless at best. No, I am arguing that any athlete who fights for every dollar is not being a greedy SOB, he is just being competitive and doing exactly what almost every other American would do. I believe in fighting for every cent (on both sides) then shaking hands and living up to the contract. Would it be a good decision to give Maggs 20% of the payroll? Probably not. It worked for the Marlins and Pudge, but I don't think we could catch that same lightning. Are we moving forward by digging yet another pot hole to fill another? Probably not. And really it isn't worth arguing about, we are at least six years away from our once every 10-15 year trip to the playoffs. I just do not think Maggs had major surgery, something that his career may depend on, in some backalley in Vienna, with some Doctor he pulled out of the phone book. I believe Maggs doesn't have a US_centric view of the world. Americans tend to believe that the US has the best in everything, that we are the only humans capable of higher thought. I see this with the Mexican nationals I am friends with. They would much rather be treated by Mexican Doctors than some US hospital where they are looked down on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 It's all part of the chain. A guy out of work thinks a guy making $6 shoudln't b****, he has a job. Someone working two minimum wage jobs thinks someone earning $30,000 is greedy for b****ing about not making $40,000. The guy making $100,000 thinks the guy making $250,000 is an idiot for complaining about his stock options. I posted this once before. I want players who are competitive in everything. I've been around enough athletes in a couple sports and they all can tell you what other guys in their position are making and what their stats are. It isn't about how much money they are making, it's about are they making more than the other guy. Most of these guys would be happier making $2,000,000 if they were #1 in salary at their position, than making $4,000,000 and being 26th for their position. They are competitors. Don't ask them to check that at the negotiation table. Maggs gambled that he could get more later and will lose. I really do not care one way or the other. A healthy Maggs makes this a better team. We can dig another pot hole to fill the ones at SS and lead off. But we'll have a guy hitting 30-40 points lower in right, with less proven talent. Y'all can keep wishing and thinking that going a couple steps back will move them forward. Maybe someday it will work, but not in my lifetime. I don't even have the time to comment on this stuff. To me, it is unreal the way you spin this and the way you try to rationalize it, but if it makes you feel better then fine. It all depends on quality of life and what your standards are I guess. I don't know if you recall last year when Maggs was demanding a certain amount and the Sox finally met those demands. Then Maggs declines it and ups the demands. That just showed me that he doesn't want to be here. It also shows me he doesn't want to be here when he doesn't allow us to give him a physical or see his medical documents. Defend these greedy athletes all you want. To me it is a shame to see this. It was treated great in this town and was given what he asked for. To hell with him. There is no comparison between he and Baines and Maggs' number should never be retired here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 I don't even have the time to comment on this stuff. To me, it is unreal the way you spin this and the way you try to rationalize it, but if it makes you feel better then fine. It all depends on quality of life and what your standards are I guess. I don't know if you recall last year when Maggs was demanding a certain amount and the Sox finally met those demands. Then Maggs declines it and ups the demands. That just showed me that he doesn't want to be here. It also shows me he doesn't want to be here when he doesn't allow us to give him a physical or see his medical documents. Defend these greedy athletes all you want. To me it is a shame to see this. It was treated great in this town and was given what he asked for. To hell with him. There is no comparison between he and Baines and Maggs' number should never be retired here. Can anybody read? I never advocated retiring Maggs number. I never advocated signing Mags. As far as the jersey thing, I am kind of wondering why they retired Baines so early in his career. Keep defending the ownership and their greed. Believe every athlete is a greedy SOB if he doesn't live up to your expectations. I never count another man's money. If he doesn't want to play in Chicago, doesn't want to accept their proposal, so be it. That doesn't make him an asshole. I agree 100% he probably doesn't want to be here. Signing with Boras is the first tip. I also think the club doesn't want him here. Trying to trade him in the offseason was a clue. I also think Sox fans don't want him. But all this speculation on his motives and accusing him of every underhanded, illegal, immoral, thing is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 Baines treated the Sox and Sox fans very well. So nice they retired his number. How was he rewarded for his loyalty and being "nice"? The greedy f***ing bastard owners traded him. But when a player leaves a team he's a greedy SOB. :headshake Why is it a one way street? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 This argument is going no where. Why don't we just wait and see what kind of numbers Maggs puts up this season. That'll be the telling point in who won this battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Baines treated the Sox and Sox fans very well. So nice they retired his number. How was he rewarded for his loyalty and being "nice"? The greedy f***ing bastard owners traded him. But when a player leaves a team he's a greedy SOB. :headshake Why is it a one way street? I see exactly where you are coming from and agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) This argument is going no where. Why don't we just wait and see what kind of numbers Maggs puts up this season. That'll be the telling point in who won this battle. The numbers are irrevelant to my point. I think Sox fans would show a hell of a lot more class by saying "Maggs was a great player while he was here, he played with a lot of heart, and gave 100% to the organization. Too bad he couldn't spend his career here and we wish him the best of luck." That's the high road. Instead [a couple people] whine and b**** and talk about our best player over the last few seasons as a selfish, greedy, SOB. Nice way to treat the guy and nice way to present a positive face to the world. Who wants to follow a team who has a bunch of assholes playing for them? edited to say "a couple people" instead of "we" Edited December 7, 2004 by Texsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I really don't like how you generalize. You do it often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 I see exactly where you are coming from and agree. I am sorry I wasn't articulate enough to make the point a long time ago To recap I was not saying Maggs number should be retired I was not saying Maggs should be signed I am saying I respect a human for wanting to work for someone else I am saying I respect the team for deciding they no longer want a player I am saying Maggs should be given a hell of a lot better treatment than he gets here. I am saying I want players who are competitive enough to negotiate thier best contract. I am saying I want players to shut up and live with the contract once it is signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 I really don't like how you generalize. You do it often. I assume those that don't know they don't and disregard the comment. But thank you Steff for pointing that out. I do need to be more carefull when shooting a shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I assume those that don't know they don't and disregard the comment. But thank you Steff for pointing that out. I do need to be more carefull when shooting a shotgun. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 Thank you. You are welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 The numbers are irrevelant to my point. I think Sox fans would show a hell of a lot more class by saying "Maggs was a great player while he was here, he played with a lot of heart, and gave 100% to the organization. Too bad he couldn't spend his career here and we wish him the best of luck." That's the high road. Instead [a couple people] whine and b**** and talk about our best player over the last few seasons as a selfish, greedy, SOB. Nice way to treat the guy and nice way to present a positive face to the world. Who wants to follow a team who has a bunch of assholes playing for them? edited to say "a couple people" instead of "we" I will treat him as he has treated me, a fan of the chicago white sox. I loved the guy, I wanted him back and wished the Sox would make him an offer. They finally did and then he wanted more and more. GREEDY SOB! Why should I thank him for the numbers he put up when he is basically pissing all over me by not WANTING to play for my team? We gave him what he wanted and he said no. f*** him! I wish someone signs him for a lot of money and a lot of years and I hope he becomes the biggest bust with whomever he plays for. I don't think you see my point as to why Magglio is greedy in my eyes. We gave him everything he asked for. We met his demands and he still turned us down and asked for more. You make good points, but I don't think we see it the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 I will treat him as he has treated me, a fan of the chicago white sox. I loved the guy, I wanted him back and wished the Sox would make him an offer. They finally did and then he wanted more and more. GREEDY SOB! Why should I thank him for the numbers he put up when he is basically pissing all over me by not WANTING to play for my team? We gave him what he wanted and he said no. f*** him! I wish someone signs him for a lot of money and a lot of years and I hope he becomes the biggest bust with whomever he plays for. I don't think you see my point as to why Magglio is greedy in my eyes. We gave him everything he asked for. We met his demands and he still turned us down and asked for more. You make good points, but I don't think we see it the same. I guess players cannot make everyone happy. If you found out your employer was trying to get rid of you, how happy would you be? Would you trust your employer again? Did that play into your feelings about Maggs at all? That was before Maggs rejected all offers and said he wasn't going to negotiate until after the season. Loyalty is a two way street in my world. The team showed a willingness to toss him out. Seems fair to me if he decided to dump them first. Do you think he ever looked at Baines number and wondered why he should ever be loyal? And the joy in all this, the Sox may have dodged a huge bullet if he cannot play right. We already have an everyday DH, and at this point I would rather have Frank and his salary at DH then Maggs at what he would have signed for. We should be thanking Maggs for his decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Actually Maggs rejected the offer he has originally asked for, then the Sox tried trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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