Here's some food for thought.

White sox team batting avg    1910 .211

the leader on the team was  Patsy Dougherty  with an avg of .248

That's an example how the rest of baseball was too.  You don't think that affects a whip?  Would you throw anything but strikes if you knew your competition was batting below .250?  That's why no one ever got walked. It's not really about control.

 

Which kinda voids the arguement about Frank Thomas's streak of .300 30 100 100 out the window doesn't it? Could Frank have put up any one of those numbers in 1910, let alone all of them? Not a chance.

Here's some food for thought.

White sox team batting avg    1910 .211

the leader on the team was  Patsy Dougherty  with an avg of .248

That's an example how the rest of baseball was too.  You don't think that affects a whip?  Would you throw anything but strikes if you knew your competition was batting below .250?  That's why no one ever got walked. It's not really about control.

 

That's a good point. A 1910 leaderboard for averages:

 

Lajoie-CLE .384

Cobb-DET .383

Speaker-BOS .340

Collins-PHA .324

Knight-NYY .312

Oldring-PHA .308

Easterly-CLE .306

Murphy-PHA .300

Delahanty-DET .294

Chase-NYY .290

 

Look at what the starting lineup for the 1910 Detroit Tigers hit, and then look at what all of their bench scrubs and pitchers hit:

 

1910 Detroit Tigers

 

The average WHIP ratio in 1910 was between 1.25 and 1.30. Eddie Walsh had a WHIP of 0.81. That is an insane difference. You wanna talk about greatness?

Which kinda voids the arguement about Frank Thomas's streak of .300 30 100 100 out the window doesn't it?  Could Frank have put up any one of those numbers in 1910, let alone all of them?  Not a chance.

 

That argument also kinda voids whatever Christy Matthewson, Mordecai Brown, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Cleveland Alexander, and other legendary pitchers did in the Dead Ball Era as well.

Which kinda voids the arguement about Frank Thomas's streak of .300 30 100 100 out the window doesn't it?  Could Frank have put up any one of those numbers in 1910, let alone all of them?  Not a chance.

Obviously no one would have those numbers. I may be going on a limb here, but I feel Frank would have still been the best hitter in that era. I don't think many guys out there were 6'5 250. Frank would have been a beast back then.

That's a good point.  A 1910 leaderboard for averages:

 

Lajoie-CLE .384

Cobb-DET .383

Speaker-BOS .340

Collins-PHA .324

Knight-NYY .312

Oldring-PHA .308

Easterly-CLE .306

Murphy-PHA .300

Delahanty-DET .294

Chase-NYY .290

 

Look at what the starting lineup for the 1910 Detroit Tigers hit, and then look at what all of their bench scrubs and pitchers hit:

 

1910 Detroit Tigers

 

The average WHIP ratio in 1910 was between 1.25 and 1.30.  Eddie Walsh had a WHIP of 0.81.  That is an insane difference.  You wanna talk about greatness?

Walsh was the best in his era. I just don't think you could compare him to someone like Bob Gibson, or Randy Johnson.

Obviously no one would have those numbers. I may be going on a limb here, but I feel Frank would have still been the best hitter in that era.  I don't think many guys out there were 6'5 250.  Frank would have been a beast back then.

Frank would have mashed back then, drawn walks, killed balls, and then scared most of the players on other teams. He is a BEAST. How soon we forget his season of hitting 353, damn!!!!!

Obviously no one would have those numbers. I may be going on a limb here, but I feel Frank would have still been the best hitter in that era.  I don't think many guys out there were 6'5 250.  Frank would have been a beast back then.

 

Frank is my childhood hero. I even have a shrine in my office with a bunch of bobblehead dolls, autographed balls, an autographed bat, plaques, starting lineup figures, every mag he's ever been on the cover of, etc.

 

That said, he could never f*** with Nap or Cobb.

That argument also kinda voids whatever Christy Matthewson, Mordecai Brown, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Cleveland Alexander, and other legendary pitchers did in the Dead Ball Era as well.

I don't think they are as great as people make them to be either. All those pitchers may be in my top 25 pitchers of all-time but not top 10.

Walsh was the best in his era. I just don't think you could compare him to someone like Bob Gibson, or Randy Johnson.

 

That's pretty much on the money. I'll take Gibson or Johnson ahead of Walsh.

Frank is my childhood hero.  I even have a shrine in my office with a bunch of bobblehead dolls, autographed balls, an autographed bat, plaques, starting lineup figures, every mag he's ever been on the cover of, etc.

 

That said, he could never f*** with Nap or Cobb.

Frank is my childhood here as well. I respect what nap and Cobb did. Didn't Nap hit .426 one year? amazing. I still don't doubt Frank would be up there with them. Frank in his peak was one of the best ever IMO.

Hammer, how could I agree with you so much in one thread and start an argument in another? I love you list of top pitchers (my only gripe is Paige not being in the top 10, but he's hard to place since he was in the Negro Leagues), and yes, Walsh definitely merits consideration for top Sox player. And as much as I love Frank, Cobb and Nap are a couple of the best ever. He's good, but he's not THAT good. I'd love to see what Cobb or Shoeless Joe could do nowadays.

Edited June 1, 200520 yr by ZoomSlowik

Frank is my childhood here as well.  I respect what nap and Cobb did.  Didn't Nap hit .426 one year?  amazing.  I still don't doubt Frank would be up there with them.  Frank in his peak was one of the best ever IMO.

 

He hit .422. Anyway, does anyone know who the last professional baseball player is to hit over .400 in a season?

He hit .422. Anyway, does anyone know who the last professional baseball player is to hit over .400 in a season?

 

Ted Williams .406, 1941

Ted Williams .406, 1941

 

Nope artie wilson hit .402 in 1948 for the birmingham black barons of the negro american league making him the last man to bat over .400 in professional baseball.

 

Was a trick question.

Your right ss

He hit .422. Anyway, does anyone know who the last professional baseball player is to hit over .400 in a season?

 

Pretty sure it was Ted Williams hitting .406 in 1941, right?

Nope artie wilson hit .402 in 1948  for the birmingham black barons of the negro american league making him the last man to bat over .400 in professional baseball.

 

Was a trick question.

 

Well if you want to open it to all professional baseball, I am sure someone in Japan, or Korea, or the minors has done it.

Well if you want to open it to all professional baseball, I am sure someone in Japan, or Korea, or the minors has done it.

 

Never been done in either japan or korea.

Never been done in either japan or korea.

 

That actually shocks me. I wonder if it is the smaller ballparks not leaving much room for hits that does it?

Hammer, how could I agree with you so much in one thread and start an argument in another? I love you list of top pitchers (my only gripe is Paige not being in the top 10, but he's hard to place since he was in the Negro Leagues), and yes, Walsh definitely merits consideration for top Sox player. And as much as I love Frank, Cobb and Nap are a couple of the best ever. He's good, but he's not THAT good. I'd love to see what Cobb or Shoeless Joe could do nowadays.

 

 

Paige definitely gets Top 10 consideration. I've seen some lists with him in the Top 5, ahead of guys like Brown, Walsh, Carlton, and even Koufax.