6 US Servicemen charged with rape

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I see your point now.

 

I've taken self-defense classes and, of course, they tell you to avoid dangerous places. And you know, I'm not saying that we shouldn't say what the victim did, but to be honest, it's not the most interesting or causal factor in this story. Who committed this crime? Who is at fault? Who made our world less safe? The rapists. Yet we first focus on the victim. Why? Because it's a hell of a lot easier to focus on that than there are men and women out there who prey on others.

 

Should you protect yourself? Not take stupid chances? Of course.

 

But at the end of the day, as safe as we like to think we are, this stuff happens all the time. And again, why don't we hear about it when it's a boyfriend, friend, girlfriend, spouse, acquaintance?

 

I mostly get absolutely livid at these news stories because odds of this happening are phenomonally small. I walk home after going to a bar (granted I'm sober), but I'm usually alone and it's late at night. Is that dumb? Yeah. But to be honest, I know I'm more likely to be assaulted by a family member, friend, boyfriend, or someone I know. And how do you protect against that? Because if we're talking about prevention of actual assaults, let's talk in terms of what actually happens. And no one ever tells you what to do if a someone you ever know does this.

 

I've met rapists, seen them in court, university hearings, hell, I've been friends with them before I knew. And I don't know how to protect myself against the nice people that are rapists. They're not deformed monsters or subhuman. I think that's the hardest part of all of this. Acknowledging most rapists are just like us--because then you really wonder how do I protect myself against this?

 

 

It may be difficult to protect against being attacked by someone you know but that's not relevant to this discussion. What is relevant is that she increased her chances of something bad happening exponentially because she made a stupid decision. Its a lot easier for me to have sympathy for people who don't invite it by being a moron.

[Texsox]

I think we were talking past each other. I doubt anyone here has anything less than total disgust for the rapists. But when we see someone who, unless drugged, make such an obviously made decision, it is worth commenting on.

 

I recently taught a drunk driving awareness program. After completing the program, I realized something important was missing. The materials never talked about getting into a car with a drunk driver. I was amazed.

 

I didn't believe anyone was saying it was her fault, I read people saying, why did she make such a poor choice [that poor girl]?

 

What makes these cases the toughest is once the rapist agrees that sex occurred, but it was consensual, it becomes who do you believe. In this one, with the victim left unconscious on the side of the road, I think it will be an easy case, but in others, I would not want to be on the jury.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Sure, the ones that get caught or whose cases are determined worthy of investigation.

 

Three of my closest friends were raped. One went to the police, but they wouldn't go ahead with the case because of "weak" evidence.

 

The other two never told.

 

Why didn't they tell?

 

So, that's 3 rapists out there scot free. These types of attitudes are the key in their jail cell that lets them walk.

 

 

Rape is taken VERY seriously but if there is no evidence what do you want the police to do? Without evidence they can't do much of anything and rightfully so. Im willing to wager that for every case like the one you mentioned theres 1 patently false accusation made.

[Soxy]

I think we were talking past each other. I doubt anyone here has anything less than total disgust for the rapists.  But when we see someone who, unless drugged, make such an obviously made decision, it is worth commenting on.

 

I recently taught a drunk driving awareness program. After completing the program, I realized something important was missing. The materials never talked about getting into a car with a drunk driver. I was amazed.

 

I didn't believe anyone was saying it was her fault, I read people saying, why did she make such a poor choice [that poor girl]?

 

What makes these cases the toughest is once the rapist agrees that sex occurred, but it was consensual, it becomes who do you believe. In this one, with the victim left unconscious on the side of the road, I think it will be an easy case, but in others, I would not want to be on the jury.

Basically, my concluding comment on this is: if you think the two situations are dissimilar, I would urge you to talk to a rape victim. The way she/he blames himself is so similar to all the reasons we've seen here. Almost identical reasons. It's easy to say those two situations are completely different. I'm just saying here, that you can't have an attitude about some kinds of rape and not expect victims to apply it to their own.

 

Come on Tex, you're a Psych major: Stimulus generalization, not just for Pavlov anymore!

[Texsox]

I don't think half of all reported rapes are false. Is that what you are saying Nuke? 1:1?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I don't think half of all reported rapes are false. Is that what you are saying Nuke? 1:1?

 

 

No. Im saying cases where evidence is lacking its probably a 1:1 ratio. Impossible to tell and thats why the burden of proof is on the accuser.

[Soxy]

Rape is taken VERY seriously but if there is no evidence what do you want the police to do?  Without evidence they can't do much of anything and rightfully so.  Im willing to wager that for every case like the one you mentioned theres 1 patently false accusation made.

Read the comments about rape survivors in this thread. Every woman knows them. We know what will be said about us if we say we were raped.

 

You'd have to be dumber than a box of rocks to make s*** like that up.

 

And, for the record, I whole-heartedly support public stoning of women that make it up (and men too). They're no better than the rapists.

 

But it's rare.

[Texsox]

Come on Tex, you're a Psych major: Stimulus generalization, not just for Pavlov anymore!

 

What are the major theories on rape?

[Soxy]

What are the major theories on rape?

I'll need you to be more specific there.

[Texsox]

No.  Im saying cases where evidence is lacking its probably a 1:1 ratio.  Impossible to tell and thats why the burden of proof is on the accuser.

 

There is always a lack of evidence as soon as the rapist admits he had sex with the woman. Even with evidence, it will come down to he said, she said. With it being as difficult as it is for a woman to report a real rape, I cannot believe there are that many false accusations.

[Texsox]

I'll need you to be more specific there.

 

Who has done any research into this? Is there a concensus opinion on why humans rape, while there are only a few other species that do?

[Soxy]

Who has done any research into this? Is there a concensus opinion on why humans rape, while there are only a few other species that do?

In short no.

 

I've actually heard one theory (albeit unpopular) that rape is committed for evolutionary reasons.

 

Most psychologists (unless they've switched in the past year and a half) agree it's about power. Same reason people batter.

 

Most of my old "rape" stuff (educational of course) is either at home or donated to my alma mater. Let me get back to you with some names after I finish my stupid presentation from hell, okay?

Edited November 4, 2005 by ChiSoxyGirl

[Texsox]

In short no.

 

I've actually heard one theory (albeit unpopular) that rape is committed for evolutionary reasons.

 

Most psychologists (unless they've switched in the past year and a half) agree it's about power. Same reason people batter.

 

Most of my old "rape" stuff (educational of course) is either at home or donated to my alma mater. Let me get back to you with some names after I finish my stupid poster from hell, okay?

 

Sexual gratification never seemed to fit. Too easy to find a prostitute, and in countries which have legalized prostitution, the rape stats stayed the same.

 

I am certain there are horny cases as well. Those are the ones that I think Nuke is mostly thinking about. Pick up a woman at the bar, you are both half smashed, she has next morning regrets and goes to the police. The underlyting premise in some of the laws, is not consistent. The victim is not responsible for their actions because they were drunk, the accused does not have that same presumption.

 

The grab a lone jogger in the woods, and rape her, I don't see as being about sex.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Rape is violent, hate crime. To call it anything else is to try to find an excuse for it.

[Texsox]

Rape is violent, hate crime.  To call it anything else is to try to find an excuse for it.

 

To find a cause is a step towards prevention, to call it finding an excuse is wrong.