6 US Servicemen charged with rape

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I agree that alcohol is the most common date rape drug. (Which is why you legally can't give consent while drunk or under the influence of any drug.)

 

Roofies as in rohypnal (spelled wrong) okay, I'll also grant you that would be rare (although I've known two people that it happened to). But I promise you any medicine cabinet in America has something that could be slipped in a drink and used as a date rape drug.

 

 

When I think of date rape drugs roofies is the only thing that comes to mind readily. Are there any other common ones? You also alluded to common medicine cabinet type stuff that can be used as a date rape drug. You have any examples?

[LosMediasBlancas]

I see this thread as an example of immense progress.

Only four dickheads (so far) thought the subject of gang rape was a good subject for a joke or a blame the victim statement.

We’ve come a long way, baby.

 

Who is joking, who is 'blaming' the victim and who exactly are the dickheads?

I wasn't joking or blaming the victim, but I'm pretty sure calling people who have a different opinion from your own 'dickheads' is immense progress, or at least ironic.

Take a bow.

[Texsox]

I see this thread as an example of immense progress.

Only four dickheads (so far) thought the subject of gang rape was a good subject for a joke or a blame the victim statement.

We’ve come a long way, baby.

 

I'm hoping you miscounted, if not, you must have mis-read my post.

 

Not to defend the Neanderthals here, but there is a statement, part way between blaming the victim and excusing bad judgment. I would not be blaming her when I say, I wish she had exercised better judgment than trusting 6 members of the US military. No one deserves to be a victim of any crime, especially rape. But I don't think any parent would suggest to their kid to jump in the van and have a good time. I'm not blaming her, but wishing she had displayed better judgment. Maybe this tragedy would have been avoided.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I'm hoping you miscounted, if not, you must have mis-read my post.

 

Not to defend the Neanderthals here, but there is a statement, part way between blaming the victim and excusing bad judgment. I would not be blaming her when I say, I wish she had exercised better judgment than trusting 6 members of the US military. No one deserves to be a victim of any crime, especially rape. But I don't think any parent would suggest to their kid to jump in the van and have a good time. I'm not blaming her, but wishing she had displayed better judgment. Maybe this tragedy would have been avoided.

 

 

Trusting strangers is a bad idea no matter who they are. The fact that they were Marines should be irrelevant.

 

I think a really good question to ask here is how many girls have to be raped and or killed before people learn to use common sense and take better care of themselves?

 

A lot more people would be alive today if they would simply take some responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately in this world we live in being the responsible one makes you the outcast, the nerd, the "buzzkill". As long as that's the prevailing attitude then Darwinism is gonna keep right on picking people off one at a time and Im gonna go right on saying "I told ya so".

Edited November 4, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[LosMediasBlancas]

Trusting strangers is a bad idea no matter who they are.  The fact that they were Marines should be irrelevant. 

 

I think a really good question to ask here is how many girls have to be raped and or killed before people learn to use common sense and take better care of themselves? 

 

A lot more people would be alive today if they would simply take some responsibility for their actions.  Unfortunately in this world we live in being the responsible one makes you the outcast, the nerd, the "buzzkill".  As long as that's the prevailing attitude then Darwinism is gonna keep right on picking people off one at a time and Im gonna go right on saying "I told ya so".

 

If 80% of rapes are commited by men that the victim knows well, then what should the lesson be? Maybe that if a guy you know well is capable or raping you, then maybe, just maybe getting into a van with 6 guys you met that same night, is bad judgement. Common sense, the least common of all senses.

[FlaSoxxJim]

As long as that's the prevailing attitude then Darwinism is gonna keep right on picking people off one at a time and Im gonna go right on saying "I told ya so".

 

People should have to put "Darwinism" in quotes when they use it in a human social context like that.

[Steff]

So typical...

 

But guess who would be the first ones defending their stupid ass slut bag whore brained sisters if this happened to them...

 

 

:headshake

[sox4lifeinPA]

You'd hope that anyone could get into a van full of US soldiers without being raped regardless of the amount of alcohol...save maybe Osama Bin Laden.

 

 

Soldiers are expected to be disciplined, but maybe not putting salt peeter into their eggs at basic training might help. I'd be pissed if I couldn't get erection for two months.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So typical...

 

But guess who would be the first ones defending their stupid ass slut bag whore brained sisters if this happened to them...

:headshake

 

 

Not me. I dont play favorites.

[LosMediasBlancas]

You'd hope that anyone could get into a van full of US soldiers without being raped regardless of the amount of alcohol...save maybe Osama Bin Laden.

Soldiers are expected to be disciplined, but maybe not putting salt peeter into their eggs at basic training might help. I'd be pissed if I couldn't get erection for two months.

 

I'm sure we'd all hope that, but this is not Mr. f***in Rogers neighborhood.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Not me.  I dont play favorites.

 

.....and my sister would never put herself in that situation, she knew beter at probably the age of 3.

[Steff]

There's got to be an award for the most times a poster completely fails to do any research before making stupid ass comments.

[Soxy]

.....and my sister would never put herself in that situation, she knew beter at probably the age of 3.

I wonder why rape is such an underreported crime. . .

[G&T]

I wonder why rape is such an underreported crime. . .

 

So true. Anybody who thinks their family is too smart to have this happen to them could be in for a rude awakening. I've seen a lot of smart girls do some really dumb things when they were drunk and even sober. The fact that anyone assumes that they are too smart to get raped leads victims not to talk because they don't want to destroy the image you have for them. We all do stupid things and there is a very good chance this woman never did a dumb thing in her life before that night. One mistake.

 

 

I would like to be the first to commend this woman for standing up for herself and not being afraid of her attackers.

[LosMediasBlancas]

So true. Anybody who thinks their family is too smart to have this happen to them could be in for a rude awakening. I've seen a lot of smart girls do some really dumb things when they were drunk and even sober. The fact that anyone assumes that they are too smart to get raped leads victims not to talk because they don't want to destroy the image you have for them. We all do stupid things and there is a very good chance this woman never did a dumb thing in her life before that night. One mistake.

I would like to be the first to commend this woman for standing up for herself and not being afraid of her attackers.

 

Well, that's a convenient spin on words. I don't recall anyone saying someone was 'too smart to get raped'. But you do have to be smart enough to recognize potentially dangerous situations. Maybe it was the 1st time she made a bad decision, but like you wrote, it WAS a mistake.

I guess since I can look at both sides of the issue I must be pro rape and a woman hater.....

[Soxy]

Well, that's a convenient spin on words.  I don't recall anyone saying someone was 'too smart to get raped'.    But you do have to be smart enough to recognize potentially dangerous situations.  Maybe it was the 1st time she made a bad decision, but like you wrote, it WAS a mistake.

I guess since I can look at both sides of the issue I must be pro rape and a woman hater.....

Well, what was the FIRST comments about this? Bad girl, stupid choice.

 

As opposed to WHAT KIND OF f***ING ASSHOLE RAPES A GIRL WITH 5 OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS?

 

Essentially, focusing first on the victim's behavior reduces the accountability that we put on the perps for RAPING someone.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Well, what was the FIRST comments about this? Bad girl, stupid choice.

 

As opposed to WHAT KIND OF f***ING ASSHOLE RAPES A GIRL WITH 5 OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS?

 

Essentially, focusing first on the victim's behavior reduces the accountability that we put on the perps for RAPING someone.

 

I see your point, but some things go without say. Is there really any question that what happened to her is horrible and that the people who allegedly raped her and all rapists are less than human?

[Texsox]

Well, what was the FIRST comments about this? Bad girl, stupid choice.

 

As opposed to WHAT KIND OF f***ING ASSHOLE RAPES A GIRL WITH 5 OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS?

 

Essentially, focusing first on the victim's behavior reduces the accountability that we put on the perps for RAPING someone.

 

Soxy,

 

How much of this would you agree with? Our society always identifies with the victim and tempers their response to the victim. A couple of examples

 

An elderly woman is home alone, someone breaks in, and murders her.

A 17 year old drop out is hanging with gang members and in a drive by shooting, he is murdered.

 

Our society has a greater moral outrage for someone who is as innocent a victim as possible. Especially someone who had not put themselves in a dangerous situation to begin with.

 

The headline is usually about the victim. 10 year old shot on the way to School; not 23 year old shoots student.

 

I do believe our military, like teachers, clergy, Doctors, etc. should be more trustworthy. Had these not been Marines, we wouldn't be discussing it.

Somewhere in all this, I think we all can agree, we wish she had exercised better judgment. I think we all agree these men, if guilty, are despicable pigs that should be given the harshest sentence available.

[Soxy]

How much of this would you agree with? Our society always identifies with the victim and tempers their response to the victim. A couple of examples

 

Well it makes us feel safe, doesn't it to blame the victim? I'll never be that stupid, so I won't be raped. I'll never walk alone late at night so I'll never be raped. After all, good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people.

 

Isn't that the easiest way to live your life?

 

Unless, of course, something bad's happened to you. . .

[sox4lifeinPA]

There's got to be an award for the most times a poster completely fails to do any research before making stupid ass comments.

 

 

It's called the "Israel4ever award"

[kapkomet]

It's called the "Israel4ever award"

 

Ain't that the damn truth.

 

He sure was a hoot.

[Texsox]

Well it makes us feel safe, doesn't it to blame the victim? I'll never be that stupid, so I won't be raped. I'll never walk alone late at night so I'll never be raped. After all, good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people.

 

Isn't that the easiest way to live your life?

 

Unless, of course, something bad's happened to you. . .

 

I'm not saying blame the victim, I'm saying we have less sympathy for someone who was dealing drugs than someone who was sitting in their living room when they are murdered.

 

Perhaps you are right, we do feel safer if we think, I won't be robbed if I avoid this neighborhood, or I won't get raped if I don't get drunk and lose control around strangers.

 

From another angle, if you were teaching a class on how to protect yourself from rape, wouldn't you discuss this situation and explain the evils of getting into a van with 6 men? Clearly that is risky behavior.

 

Does she deserve to be a victim of a crime? Of course not. Are the 6 men involved the lowest forms of human life? Absolutely.

 

How can one fit all that together? Should her actions be discussed at all, in the context of how to avoid being a victim?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Well, what was the FIRST comments about this? Bad girl, stupid choice.

 

As opposed to WHAT KIND OF f***ING ASSHOLE RAPES A GIRL WITH 5 OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS?

 

Essentially, focusing first on the victim's behavior reduces the accountability that we put on the perps for RAPING someone.

 

 

I seem to remember adding rape to the list of crimes I want to see the death penalty enforced on. You are implying that we're soft on rape but thats just not the case.

[Soxy]

I'm not saying blame the victim, I'm saying we have less sympathy for someone who was dealing drugs than someone who was sitting in their living room when they are murdered.

 

Perhaps you are right, we do feel safer if we think, I won't be robbed if I avoid this neighborhood, or I won't get raped if I don't get drunk and lose control around strangers.

 

From another angle, if you were teaching a class on how to protect yourself from rape, wouldn't you discuss this situation and explain the evils of getting into a van with 6 men? Clearly that is risky behavior.

 

Does she deserve to be a victim of a crime? Of course not. Are the 6 men involved the lowest forms of human life? Absolutely.

 

How can one fit all that together? Should her actions be discussed at all, in the context of how to avoid being a victim?

I see your point now.

 

I've taken self-defense classes and, of course, they tell you to avoid dangerous places. And you know, I'm not saying that we shouldn't say what the victim did, but to be honest, it's not the most interesting or causal factor in this story. Who committed this crime? Who is at fault? Who made our world less safe? The rapists. Yet we first focus on the victim. Why? Because it's a hell of a lot easier to focus on that than there are men and women out there who prey on others.

 

Should you protect yourself? Not take stupid chances? Of course.

 

But at the end of the day, as safe as we like to think we are, this stuff happens all the time. And again, why don't we hear about it when it's a boyfriend, friend, girlfriend, spouse, acquaintance?

 

I mostly get absolutely livid at these news stories because odds of this happening are phenomonally small. I walk home after going to a bar (granted I'm sober), but I'm usually alone and it's late at night. Is that dumb? Yeah. But to be honest, I know I'm more likely to be assaulted by a family member, friend, boyfriend, or someone I know. And how do you protect against that? Because if we're talking about prevention of actual assaults, let's talk in terms of what actually happens. And no one ever tells you what to do if a someone you ever know does this.

 

I've met rapists, seen them in court, university hearings, hell, I've been friends with them before I knew. And I don't know how to protect myself against the nice people that are rapists. They're not deformed monsters or subhuman. I think that's the hardest part of all of this. Acknowledging most rapists are just like us--because then you really wonder how do I protect myself against this?

[Soxy]

I seem to remember adding rape to the list of crimes I want to see the death penalty enforced on.  You are implying that we're soft on rape but thats just not the case.

Sure, the ones that get caught or whose cases are determined worthy of investigation.

 

Three of my closest friends were raped. One went to the police, but they wouldn't go ahead with the case because of "weak" evidence.

 

The other two never told.

 

Why didn't they tell?

 

So, that's 3 rapists out there scot free. These types of attitudes are the key in their jail cell that lets them walk.