I was a little sad getting rid of viz but to be honest it won't be that hard to find a suitable replacement for him.

Well, now that Viz is gone, I see Dotel as KW's next target. Jas called that one.

I can't believe you didnt have a Viz sig.

Ha, well I'm not the only cursed one. Willie had gio and Young as his AAP's.

Well, now that Viz is gone, I see Dotel as KW's next target. Jas called that one.

Could be, that's a definite possibility.

Ha, well I'm not the only cursed one.  Willie had gio and Young as his AAP's.

And that loser Willie's username is in danger too

Viz was money down the stretch, much more reliable than Marte, you're basing your hate on one game where he had to stay out there because no one else was left. I guess Baj is good, I've only seen him in garbage time in the majors, but the FA market shows there's a premium for any bullpen help. Marte is gone. Viz is gone. Hermanson is questionable...

 

I don't like this trade at all right now. Vazquez is garbage, I don't get Kenny's man crush with him, he was good with Montreal, and has blown chunks ever since, and now you're bringing a guy that gives up the long ball into a hitter friendly park. If it was El Duque for Vazquez straight up, I could stomach it. But then you throw in Young AND Vizcaino too, for Vazquez?? WTF? I like winning now, but is this team going to be like the Marlins in 3-4 years? I'm guessing this was done to trade Garland/money issues, well you better get a superstar, I really don't like making moves on the reliance of the possibility of another deal. If it was a sure thing, it'd be a 3 team trade.

 

I've supported all of KW's moves in the past, but I don't get this one. I'd rather have one year of Garland then 3+ of a piece of crap pitcher like Vazquez. ERA over 4 while pitching in the NL West, yeah, that's a real stud. We'll see what he does from here, but I voted horrible trade right now

Basing a pitcher on his record when he played for one of the worst teams in baseball.  Ok.

 

Garland isn't like a million times better than Javy as you said.  They are very different pitchers and I don't see how can you possibly call JG way better.

 

JV will pitch more similar to his Monteal days than the NYY/AZ days, JMO.

 

Just remember that had we had Javier Vasquez this year instead of either Jose Contreras or Jon Garland, we not only wouldn't have won the World Series, we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

 

Check it out. There's no reason to believe Vasquez would have pitched better in the AL facing DH's instead of pitchers. And given the Sox' difficulty scoring runs, there is no reason to believe he would have done better than 11-15. Compared to Garland's 18-10 or even Contreras's 13-9, that's enough of a swing that Cleveland wins the division and we sit home.

Just remember that had we had Javier Vasquez this year instead of either Jose Contreras or Jon Garland, we not only wouldn't have won the World Series, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. 

 

Check it out.  There's no reason to believe Vasquez would have pitched better in the AL facing DH's instead of pitchers.  And given the Sox' difficulty scoring runs, there is no reason to believe he would have done better than 11-15.  Compared to Garland's 18-10 or even Contreras's 13-9, that's enough of a swing that Cleveland wins the division and we sit home.

 

Vasquez had a fine first half when he was in New York in the AL. I have no idea what would have happened last year, but this is a move that really helps us out for next year and beyond. Cooper is going to have a lot of fun with this guy and could realistically make him an All-Star. This is a very, very good move for the White Sox.

Just remember that had we had Javier Vasquez this year instead of either Jose Contreras or Jon Garland, we not only wouldn't have won the World Series, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. 

 

Check it out.  There's no reason to believe Vasquez would have pitched better in the AL facing DH's instead of pitchers.  And given the Sox' difficulty scoring runs, there is no reason to believe he would have done better than 11-15.  Compared to Garland's 18-10 or even Contreras's 13-9, that's enough of a swing that Cleveland wins the division and we sit home.

 

You can't say that at all. Put the man in different circumstances, you can expect different results. He certainly has the talent. Maybe he was miserable in Arizona. Maybe Coop would have changed his focus. Maybe the good defense would have been a confidence builder. Ther are several things that could have affected his performance if he would have been here rather than there.

Just remember that had we had Javier Vasquez this year instead of either Jose Contreras or Jon Garland, we not only wouldn't have won the World Series, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. 

 

Check it out.  There's no reason to believe Vasquez would have pitched better in the AL facing DH's instead of pitchers.  And given the Sox' difficulty scoring runs, there is no reason to believe he would have done better than 11-15.  Compared to Garland's 18-10 or even Contreras's 13-9, that's enough of a swing that Cleveland wins the division and we sit home.

 

:headshake

 

We don't have Vazquez instead of Contreras or Garland. We have Vazquez instead of El Duque (upgrade, possibly huge one), and we MIGHT end up with McCarthy replacing Garland (could be downgrade, or upgrade, but most likely somewhere between).

You can't say that at all.  Put the man in different circumstances, you can expect different results.  He certainly has the talent.  Maybe he was miserable in Arizona.  Maybe Coop would have changed his focus.  Maybe the good defense would have been a confidence builder.  Ther are several things that could have affected his performance if he would have been here rather than there.

 

I'll bet pitching in thin air can be very frustrating, when your pitches lose their movement.

Count me as one of the guys that likes Vazquez. He's shown an awful lot more than Contreras had when we acquired him, and he's considerably younger with comparably good stuff. Considering that we traded a guy who won 20 games the previous year for Contreras, I'd say we did a lot better this time. Remember, he hasn't exactly been in the greatest situations the last two years. There's a lot of pressure when you play for the Yankees, and maybe it just got to him in the second half. Arizona was just a brutal place to go, and he was pissed about it to boot. That place is an absolute bandbox, and the D-Backs are a bad team. Put him on our team with some good infield defense and a less homerun friendly park and he should be fine. He really isn't that different than Freddy Garcia.

 

As for Young, let's lay off the 30/30 and 40/40 talk in the majors for a while. The kid has had one year at AA and still has a ways to go, plus he strikes out a ton, and the only time he's hit above .280 was in his second year of rookie ball. The player he's most often compared to is Mike Cameron, who is a solid but not stellar player. For all we know he's the next Corey Patterson, so let's relax until he does something for the D-Backs.