May 23, 200322 yr One error automatically leads to another batter, more pitchers and less confidence a pitcher has for his fielders. You could make the same argument for a guy that has great hands, but s***ty range as well. Jose makes the plays that some SS's do not make....but does not have great hands, which some SS's do. Tell me...do you think a pitcher has more confidence with Royce Clayton at SS or Jose Valentin at SS?
May 23, 200322 yr You could make the same argument for a guy that has great hands, but s***ty range as well. Jose makes the plays that some SS's do not make....but does not have great hands, which some SS's do. But wait, that would actually require people to watch games and use their own baseball judgement when analyzing defensive +/-.....Nah, indiscriminantely throwing error totals out there is so much easier
May 23, 200322 yr Tell me...do you think a pitcher has more confidence with Royce Clayton at SS or Jose Valentin at SS? If you were to ask me this question last year, it's Clayton. This year, it's probably a tie all things considered. I know Clayton made 3 awful plays against the Cubs alone that cost Brewers dearly.
May 23, 200322 yr It feels like we've had this debate before, but I'm not above jumping into the fray. While there are many all-star SS's right now, after Jeter, Nomar, Tejada, and Vizquel, Jose is up there with any of them. While the debate has been mostly about defense, he's the only good leader on this ballclub. With a laid-back manager, someone has to be the firey, emotional guy... and that's Jose. Who takes this role if he is gone? Frank? Maggs? Carlos?... the only one I can see with real leadership ability is Olivo (not sure why I feel that way). For those who say he should play DH or another position, check out his stats when not playing SS... kind of like Frank when not playing 1B.
May 23, 200322 yr Tell me...do you think a pitcher has more confidence with Royce Clayton at SS or Jose Valentin at SS? thats easy enough.. whos sittin here and whos up in milwaukee????
May 23, 200322 yr I've seen St JosE6's leadership all season - why we are in first place with the rest of the division eating our dust Valentin makes great plays and sucks at the routine ones. Either his head isn't always in the game or the great leader is just an error prone fielder
May 23, 200322 yr I've seen St JosE6's leadership all season - why we are in first place with the rest of the division eating our dust Valentin makes great plays and sucks at the routine ones. Either his head isn't always in the game or the great leader is just an error prone fielder He's just error prone.
May 23, 200322 yr I've seen St JosE6's leadership all season - why we are in first place with the rest of the division eating our dust Still grasping at straws, I see...that's what happenes when "Jose is a terrible defensive liability" doesn't hold up when you look beyond superficial error totals...Winning? I bet If Konerko, Crede, Ordonez, Lee, Koch, Gordon, White, etc were performing anywhere near their capabilities early on (especially in clutch) in clutch situations, we'd be looking at 30-16. Easily. And Jose hasn't even been playing well yet. Hell if it turns out Jose had a hand in hleping Jimenez getr over himself and play two heads above his carreer averages...that alone would ensure his place in Sox Leadership HOF in my book considering we have nobody else who can step up.
May 23, 200322 yr And Jose hasn't even been playing well I'll agree with that! all your circular arguments - it is everyone else's fault - still grasping at straws, huh?
May 23, 200322 yr all your circular arguments - it is everyone else's fault - still grasping at straws, huh? And what is your point? That Jose has committed 9 errors so he must be the Devil incarnate? What part of "if Jose has been terrible defensively this year...then so have Guzman, Tejada and even Vizquel's because their errors have cost their respective teams ay least as many runs as Jose's cost the Sox, and in case of Teajada, more" don't you get?
May 23, 200322 yr so he must be the Devil... lol had to laugh at that one.. i reminded of me about that movie the water boy.... his momma always callin stuff the devil..............i can see it now.. .jose your the devil...........
May 23, 200322 yr And what is your point? That Jose has committed 9 errors so he must be the Devil incarnate? did I say that? No. Your argument loses whatever credibility it had when you have to make up things to argue against to bolster your point.
May 23, 200322 yr Is there an option/buyout with Jose for next year, or is he a free agent? He is a FA
May 23, 200322 yr I've said this before and I'm sure I'll have to say it again. Jose Valentin is a winner. I don't care about his errors, he adds so much more to this team with his overall ability as a baseball player.... range, arm, knowing which base to throw to, being positioned properly in the field, baserunning, on field leader, clubhouse guy... all of it. I want Jose Valentin on this team, and I want him as the starting shortstop.
May 23, 200322 yr Yofu perhaps? The only downside to him tho is that hes already thirty so if he gets up next year well only get maybe nine years out of him, and that if he gets up next year. But hey, Ill take nine years... Oye vey!
May 23, 200322 yr arm? what are we, little league coaches here? impressed with someones arm and not with its accuracy? Valentin has range, I'll give him that, but isn't that much better compared to other shortstops in baseball to where it makes up for his poor play on routine grounders. offensively? once again, good baserunner and clutch hitter, but like I've said a MILLION times, he can't show either unless he's on base or people are on base. Valentin is a .250 hitter with 20 HR and 70 RBIs, along with 30 errors. his leadership is great, but that doesn't mean anything. as far as being a winner? well, maybe attitude-wise, but how many winning teams has he been on in his career? fact is, defense wins games and anyone who doesn't believe that should look at our record when we make an error as opposed to when you don't make an error. if we have a chance to get a young shorstop who can catch the ball, get him.
May 23, 200322 yr arm? what are we, little league coaches here? impressed with someones arm and not with its accuracy? Valentin has range, I'll give him that, but isn't that much better compared to other shortstops in baseball to where it makes up for his poor play on routine grounders. offensively? once again, good baserunner and clutch hitter, but like I've said a MILLION times, he can't show either unless he's on base or people are on base. Valentin is a .250 hitter with 20 HR and 70 RBIs, along with 30 errors. his leadership is great, but that doesn't mean anything. as far as being a winner? well, maybe attitude-wise, but how many winning teams has he been on in his career? fact is, defense wins games and anyone who doesn't believe that should look at our record when we make an error as opposed to when you don't make an error. if we have a chance to get a young shorstop who can catch the ball, get him. I love it when you analyze! Great post! says it far better than I have been able to say it, far better.
May 23, 200322 yr Jose isnt that bad. Hes average tho. Like someone else said, an improvement would be nice but its not necessary. But until Joses hitting 40 homeruns a year with a .350 average and playing flawless defense, I prefer that he not tell other players to pick it up. If anyone should do that, its Frank, Maggs or Loaiza. And maybe DJ too...
May 23, 200322 yr I've said this before and I'm sure I'll have to say it again. Jose Valentin is a winner. I don't care about his errors, he adds so much more to this team with his overall ability as a baseball player.... range, arm, knowing which base to throw to, being positioned properly in the field, baserunning, on field leader, clubhouse guy... all of it. I want Jose Valentin on this team, and I want him as the starting shortstop. Id rather he not point fingers tho. Hes not the best player so I dont care what he thinks of everyone elses play. He should concentrate on his own play and leave everyone elses to JM...
May 23, 200322 yr Whats that steff? That's you getting knocked on the head for calling him a short stop.
May 23, 200322 yr But until Joses hitting 40 homeruns a year with a .350 average and playing flawless defense If Jose ever hits .350 with 40+ homers, that means he would probably drive in about 140-150 runs given his propensity to excel with pressure ...couple that with "flawless defense", range, arm at SS as well as base-running, leadership, etc. Why he'd be worth 20+ mill a year. Sure the Sox would pay the tab?
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