During the Cardinals game tonight, the announcers were talking about some new defensive ratings that came out today. They said that Rolen & Molina were tops at their positions for the NL and Pujols & Edmonds were second at theirs. Does anybody know what they are talking about?

I haven't heard anything about it, but I can't imagine they'll ever find a stat that is an accurate measure of someone's defensive abilities.

If it says Edmonds is the second best center fielder it's probably wrong.

 

No clue what they were talking about though.

UZR? A guy in the Cardinals organization, I think, came up with UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating), so I would guess that that's what they're talking about.

UZR? A guy in the Cardinals organization, I think, came up with UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating), so I would guess that that's what they're talking about.

That's not exactly new though, it's been around. I don't think that its been public though since ~2001, so that could make some sort of sense (I wouldn't know if it were public now either though).

Defense and your ability to play it is the one thing that "crusty old scouts" are still needed for IMO. Statistical analysis in regards to pitchers and batting are very important, however the skills (or lack thereof) are something that for the most part you need to watch for yourself in order to decide. That is also why often times you can get big arguments as to how good a defender is or isn't, since stats are so deceiving in that regard.

Edited August 6, 200619 yr by whitesoxfan101

Defense and your ability to play it is the one thing that "crusty old scouts" are still needed for IMO. Statistical analysis in regards to pitchers and batting are very important, however the skills (or lack thereof) are something that for the most part you need to watch for yourself in order to decide. That is also why often times you can get big arguments as to how good a defender is or isn't, since stats are so deceiving in that regard.

 

There are just way too many friggin variables to determine how good a player is defensively statistically. The tendency of a pitching staff(GB/FB/K) can swing stats, the size of the park can, the strength of the offenses and pitching staffs within said players division and even league, the quality of the defense of the LFer and RFer(hell even the 2Bman and SS)...you factor in all that, plus however much other stuff you can figure, and then maybe you can have a stat that helps indicate one way or another...and regardless of that, you still have to have eyes to see if your stats are backing you up or not.

There are just way too many friggin variables to determine how good a player is defensively statistically. The tendency of a pitching staff(GB/FB/K) can swing stats, the size of the park can, the strength of the offenses and pitching staffs within said players division and even league, the quality of the defense of the LFer and RFer(hell even the 2Bman and SS)...you factor in all that, plus however much other stuff you can figure, and then maybe you can have a stat that helps indicate one way or another...and regardless of that, you still have to have eyes to see if your stats are backing you up or not.

But all those variables are available, so you can use them in constructing your Index of Glove Outstandingness Taken Independent of Team (or IGOTIT). So that doesn't seem to be a big problem.

 

Personally, I'm not even that demanding. I don't know how UZR is done, but I think a zone rating adjusted for (say) park and surrounding teammates would be awfully close to ideal for infielders. Intuitively, that's what I imagine a good infielder does, he makes more plays in his area than other defenders. Outfielders are more complicated -- but that same adjusted zone rating alongside some measure of how far runners get on balls in his direction would go most of the way.

The Cards are notorious for pimping their players when they shouldn't be... I'm sure it was some obscure stat that shouldn't be bothered with.

As long as it doesnt say Eckstein is a good defensive SS I'm ok with it.