March 30, 200917 yr I included Rivera because kyle said pitchers Not sure why I forgot to include Clemens.. add him too obviously Edited March 30, 200917 yr by rangercal
March 30, 200917 yr QUOTE (earthshiner @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:56 AM) Maddux, Johnson, Glavine, Smoltz, Martinez, Mussina, Wells, hell, even David Cone had a career just about as good as Schilling David Wells was not a better pitcher than Curt Schilling. People really need to give that up. And, while David Cone just about had a career as good as Schilling, he did not have a career as good as Schilling. Almost only works in horseshoes and hand grenades. Mussina is arguable for reasons already mentioned in this thread. That leaves Maddux (HoF), Johnson (HoF), Glavine (HoF), Smoltz (HoF), and Martinez (HoF) all above him. I would say Schilling falls right in with those guys, he just didn't have the number of wins of everybody else, but everything else is right there.
March 30, 200917 yr well if we are gonna include closers to the list add Hoffman, Rivera, Wagner, and Percival
March 30, 200917 yr QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 12:42 AM) All-Time K-To-BB Ratio 1. Tommy Bond 4.440 (879 to 198) 2. Curt Schilling 4.380 (3116 to 711) 3. Pedro Martinez 4.140 (3117 to 752) 4. Ben Sheets 3.850 (1206 to 313) 5. Mariano Rivera 3.830 (934 to 244) The K-to-BB goat if not for some dude that pitched in the 1870s. He also has the 13th best K/9IP ratio (8.60) in the history of baseball, and he averaged a 1.09 WHIP ratio from 1992 to 2004 (ages 25 to 37). Point blank, if you don't have him in the hall of fame, then you don't know your baseball too well IMO. The guy had 7 years he made 30 or more starts. He was a nice pitcher, but he wasn't Sandy Koufax-esque. If he played full seasons he probably would be a first ballot guy, but he didn't. If he goes in, there are several that need to go in as well.
March 30, 200917 yr QUOTE (earthshiner @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 10:02 AM) well if we are gonna include closers to the list add Hoffman, Rivera, Wagner, and Percival I don't think of Troy Percival as one of the greatest closers of this generation. And Hoffman really falls into the Lee Smith category of closers...very good closer who has stuck around for a long time, but is he really one of the greatest? You'll find no arguments from me from Wagner and Rivera, but I don't think you include closers on this list. You can't compare first basemen to catchers and middle infielders in regards to the Hall of Fame, so why compare starting pitchers to relief pitchers?
March 30, 200917 yr Bottom line.. Schilling is borderline So uniform and gimmicks make all the difference in the world.... Red Sox, Cubs or Yankees World Series winner + bloody sock = HOF White Sox, Marlins or A's World Series winner + no bloody sock = No HOF I obviously can't prove this would be the case, but I feel this would be true.
March 30, 200917 yr So you are saying that he hangs with all of these HOF caliber players. But he shouldnt be HOF? Strange
March 30, 200917 yr QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) So you are saying that he hangs with all of these HOF caliber players. But he shouldnt be HOF? Strange He is very borderline IMO. You can make a good argument either way. I'm on the side of the fence that says he should not be in the HOF. He will get in, gimmicks and uniforms seem to matter in baseball. Strange
March 30, 200917 yr QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 10:01 AM) That leaves Maddux (HoF), Johnson (HoF), Glavine (HoF), Smoltz (HoF), and Martinez (HoF) all above him. I would say Schilling falls right in with those guys, he just didn't have the number of wins of everybody else, but everything else is right there. Not really. Schilling's consistency/longevity is far behind those SP mentioned.
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