Turning Loaiza and Count into the best pitchers in baseball for a period time was no easy task. And Bobby certainly redeemed himself here. His praise is definitely deserved.

Meh. Those guys were probably on roids back then.

 

EDIT: added "probably"

Edited August 27, 200916 yr by BigSqwert

Since 2005 the only guy he really turned around was Thornton. He gets way too much praise IMO.

Gavin Floyd made huge strides with Cooper. John Danks has grown a lot with Cooper (Buehrle has helped as well). Javier Vazquez was better under Cooper, although he wasn't as good as we all wanted him to be. Jose Contreras was at his finest with Coop.

 

On the offensive side:

Uribe (while never great) had his best offensive years with Walker

Crede made strides with Walker (injuries effected him from ever having multiple good offensive seasons though and he really only had one good offensive season)

 

But as a whole, Walker hasn't had a lot of young players to work with so you can't really say he's had a chance. And don't tell me Andy Gonzalez. His only big failures so to speak are the Nick Swishers of the world and it was well documented that Swisher didn't listen to Walker anyway.

 

I really think Walker gets a lot more hate than he should, but I also think Coop does deserve a lot of credit, but it doesn't mean he's always perfect.

How many players have Soxtalkers released or DFA'ed this year ?

Gavin Floyd made huge strides with Cooper. John Danks has grown a lot with Cooper (Buehrle has helped as well). Javier Vazquez was better under Cooper, although he wasn't as good as we all wanted him to be. Jose Contreras was at his finest with Coop.

 

On the offensive side:

Uribe (while never great) had his best offensive years with Walker

Crede made strides with Walker (injuries effected him from ever having multiple good offensive seasons though and he really only had one good offensive season)

 

But as a whole, Walker hasn't had a lot of young players to work with so you can't really say he's had a chance. And don't tell me Andy Gonzalez. His only big failures so to speak are the Nick Swishers of the world and it was well documented that Swisher didn't listen to Walker anyway.

 

I really think Walker gets a lot more hate than he should, but I also think Coop does deserve a lot of credit, but it doesn't mean he's always perfect.

uribe has been equally mediocre throughout his whole career.

Why do we keep going along with this myth that Coop fixes guys that are flawed? How many guys have gone through our pitching staff that he couldn't turn around?

 

MacDougal

Aardsma

Riske

Koch

Vazquez

Linebrink

Vizcaino

Rausch

Pena

 

There's probably more I can't think of right now.

Vizcaino was a huge key to that '05 title and will never get credit for it because of crap like this. If he doesn't work the innings he did with solid results like he did then that bullpen gets exposed. Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, etc. weren't world-beaters, they just had great years and Vizcaino's presence was a big reason for that. I have no idea why you would have included him on this list.

 

Coop *did* make changes with Javy, though they were slight mechanical ones which led to his 2007 season. Unfortunately Coop is unlicensed to perform lobotomies.

 

MacDougal can not repeat his delivery. Nothing anyone can do would change that. You can't just change someone's arm slot after he's been using it his whole life.

 

I could go on, but it's pointless. Lots of these guys that Coop was supposed to "fix" had injury issues or unrepeatable deliveries or were mental midgets. You can't do anything with that. Expecting Coop to turn Andy Sisco into Matt Thornton would be like expecting Greg Walker to turn DeWayne Wise into Grady Sizemore.

Edited August 27, 200916 yr by Kenny Hates Prospects

How many players have Soxtalkers released or DFA'ed this year ?

If KW listened to all the threads on this board, he would be paying about 75 guys right now. 50 to play for other teams.

the problem is he doesn't have good command of the "run" on the pitches.

 

This issue seems to be same with Linebrink. You cant really afford to have two guys in the pen with no command of the "run on their" pitches. Its like pathetic.

Need me some qwerty.

Need me a fix.

Need me some Kalapse.

Need me some PitchFX.