southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,7989644.story With the signing of Sergio Santos to a three-year contract that could extend by an additional three seasons, the right side of the Chicago White Sox’s bullpen should be in very good shape. But the left side could be under some degree of scrutiny, especially if Matt Thornton is traded this winter. Chris Sale performed exceptionally well, but he is destined for his preferred role as a starter. There’s a good chance the Sox would try to add a left-handed reliever this off-season if Thornton is traded, especially since general manager Ken Williams understands the value of carrying three left-handed relievers to combat formidable American League Central hitters such as Minnesota’s Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau, Cleveland’s Shin-Soo Choo, Travis Hafner and Grady Sizemore, and Kansas City’s Alex Gordon, Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas and Mitch Maier. With Sale headed to the rotation, Ohman would at least be assured of a more prominent role unless the Sox add a high-end left-hander. Before signing with the Sox as a free agent, Ohman was more accustomed to pitching later in games. Another left-hander who could take advantage of Sale’s departure would be Hector Santiago, who was scoreless in two appearances in July and showed the most improvement among the Sox’s minor league pitchers this season. With the development of a screwball, Santiago limited minor league hitters to a .235 batting average, and he allowed only one hit in 5 1/3 innings during his two appearances with the Sox. Santiago was used as a started at Class-A Winston Salem and Double-A Birmingham, but he could be best served to the Sox as a reliever because of their shortage of left-handed relievers. Thornton, however, has a strong presence among his bullpen teammates despite his rough start last April that caused him to lose the closer duties. “Thornton is an example for all of us,” Santos said last Wednesday. “You see how hard he works off the field. You see him in here early ever day, working hard and doing arm stuff. Seeing that, he doesn’t have to have the numbers. He motivates us.” Thornton is signed for the next two years at $12 million, and he is aware that several teams were interest in him before the July 31 trading deadline. He has expressed a strong interest to stay with the Sox but knows he could be a trade target. With Santos and Jesse Crain (2.62 ERA in 67 appearances) securing the late-inning duties, the competition for the final bullpen spot on the right side could get thicker if the Sox don’t pick up the $3.75 million option on Jason Frasor shortly after the conclusion of the World Series. Addison Reed made a favorable impression in September. Shane Lindsay’s chances would improve if he can harness his bouts of wildness. Josh Kinney was signed last winter as a minor league free agent and made a contribution to the major league club, but this marks an important winter for Gregory Infante, who wasn’t promoted despite striking out 54 in 63 2/3 innings and posting a 2.54 ERA in 46 appearances for Birmingham and Triple-A Charlotte. In his final briefing with reporters last week, Williams expressed the depth of relievers the Sox have in their minor league system. That asset could be used to address other areas. Copyright © 2011, Chicago Tribune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) The reason we shouldn't be so quick to want Thornton traded. Ohman is a situational lefty and Matt can go two innings at least. Possibly Santiago can replace Sale, if in fact Sale can cut it as a starter. Lots on unanswered questions at this point obviously Edited October 5, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 07:36 AM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,7989644.story I've been thinking, in regards to Santiago, that the org's desire to trade Thornton will be much higher if they have enough confidence in the kid. Could be another substantial payroll cutter, along with the expected (by me, anyway) shedding of Q and Danks (OR but not AND Floyd). I don't want to see Frasor back at anything close to the $3.75 option. With Reed added to what we already have, plus the Humber and Stewart loser for the 5th spot possibly becoming the longman, I'm not concerned about the right side. Ohman could be more of a "key figure" than most of us would want him to be, but it might make the most sense to eliminate Thornton's salary, if the return is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I can see Frasor gone as we have several potential minor league righties that can step into the spot, but we need three lefties in the pen. You never have enough lefty relief help so Thonton is needed and is the expereince we need also. 5 innings of experience from Santiago and have him step in and take over from Sale and Thornton? I wouldn't think so Edited October 5, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 You have to keep Frasor, there will be a loss of innings for the starters without Buehrle and Danks or Floyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 11:03 AM) I can see Frasor gone as we have several potential minor league righties that can step into the spot, but we need three lefties in the pen. You never have enough lefty relief help so Thonton is needed and is the expereince we need also. 5 innings of experience from Santiago and have him step in and take over from Sale and Thornton? I wouldn't think so Lots of teams do fine with only two lefties in their pen. Three is nice, certainly, but if they have to cut, would you rather see Buehrle not re-signed if Thornton's $12M were the difference? Let's not elevate everything to which we've become accustomed, to an absolute necessity, in the offseason, as we did during this past season. Lefty relief arm(s) that are near-ready might be part of the package in the coming trades. Given the managerial vacuum, perhaps it's a good thing that Coop will have an even larger say for the short term on whether Santiago is ready, or what talent he likes in other orgs. that could be acquired. Either way, I trust his judgement. The simple, huge, and overriding concern going forward is, IMO: Can we score enough damn runs? For the rotation, pen, and defense, my cup remains half-full going into 2012 and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) Lots of teams do fine with only two lefties in their pen. Three is nice, certainly, but if they have to cut, would you rather see Buehrle not re-signed if Thornton's $12M were the difference? Based on this season, I'd really say that the 3rd lefty is overkill if 1 of them isn't the closer. Especially if we're running with only a 6 man pen for some reason...that left Crain as the only reliable RHP. Even Crain + Reed + Santos is still a fairly weak right side since there's no right-handed long man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Based on this season, I'd really say that the 3rd lefty is overkill if 1 of them isn't the closer. Especially if we're running with only a 6 man pen for some reason...that left Crain as the only reliable RHP. Even Crain + Reed + Santos is still a fairly weak right side since there's no right-handed long man. If Reed comes anywhere close to what he is supposed to be, that is a dynamite right side. The only man can always come from the loser in the 5th starter derby, or whomever The Cooper Project is. I doubt they go with 6 relievers if they lose Matty and Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) If Reed comes anywhere close to what he is supposed to be, that is a dynamite right side. The only man can always come from the loser in the 5th starter derby, or whomever The Cooper Project is. I doubt they go with 6 relievers if they lose Matty and Sale. And if they have to go with a 7 man pen...which is of course entirely possible...then not only are there 2 rookies out there in Santiago and Reed, but we're back to the Bruney style garbage for the 7th slot. Better than having him in the 6th slot I guess...but still...it'd be nice to reach the point where the last man out of the bullpen belonged on a major league roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 01:13 PM) And if they have to go with a 7 man pen...which is of course entirely possible...then not only are there 2 rookies out there in Santiago and Reed, but we're back to the Bruney style garbage for the 7th slot. Better than having him in the 6th slot I guess...but still...it'd be nice to reach the point where the last man out of the bullpen belonged on a major league roster. I don't see anyone on the roster as Bruney bad. Santos, Crain, Reed, Ohman, Santiago, plus a reliever from any of the deals that would be done here (Thornton at least if he is done), plus the loser of Axelrod and Stewart for the 5th spot would make up the 7. That is assuming that there are no other players brought in on minor league deals, or an Infante doesn't blow someone away during the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 09:47 AM) The reason we shouldn't be so quick to want Thornton traded. Ohman is a situational lefty and Matt can go two innings at least. Possibly Santiago can replace Sale, if in fact Sale can cut it as a starter. Lots on unanswered questions at this point obviously $$$$$$$$$$=Thornton is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) $$$$$$$$$$=Thornton is gone. No one wants to deal him, it is all matter of Matt being "expensive" and us having cheap replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 09:47 AM) The reason we shouldn't be so quick to want Thornton traded. Ohman is a situational lefty and Matt can go two innings at least. Possibly Santiago can replace Sale, if in fact Sale can cut it as a starter. Lots on unanswered questions at this point obviously Honestly, with how Matt whipped out his dingle and pissed all over the first month of the season, which I do believe (combined with Juan Pierre's defensive ability flying the coop) caused this team to get in such a rut they could never recover, I want him gone. GTFO, Mr. Thornton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) No one wants to deal him, it is all matter of Matt being "expensive" and us having cheap replacements. I'm not even sure we have cheap replacements, based on what Thornton normally provides. I'd call the motivation for dealing him "Getting something more useful back based on our current situation." If we don't get that...then he's out in the pen next April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 02:55 PM) Honestly, with how Matt whipped out his dingle and pissed all over the first month of the season, which I do believe (combined with Juan Pierre's defensive ability flying the coop) caused this team to get in such a rut they could never recover, I want him gone. GTFO, Mr. Thornton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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