cbs sportsline rumor

[baggio202]

this rumor has carlos lee , jon garland , willie harris , a minor leaguer and cash going to montreal for bartolo colon and jose vidro..

 

let me say this...this sounds like a KW trade...we give away more players then we get and cash too...and its a starting pitcher and a 2nd baseman for the same...very typical of the moves KW likes to make..

 

but i dont think its gonna happen because it would actually be a great move for the sox providing the minor leaguer wasnt borchard , rauch or one of our top 5 prospects...colon is better than garland ever will be..same with vidro and harris...those are both huge upgrades...colon might even push buehrle to the 2 spot...

 

as for losing carlos lee...well you all know im not his biggest fan

[Jjav829]

I don't know if it's the same one your talking about but there was a rumor posted by someone on a message board at cbssportsline.com that was basically the same trade but with the Sox getting Barrett and trading 2 prospects. It wasn't a cbssportsline.com rumor but just some poster who said he heard it on a Montreal radio station, so it's not from a reliable source.

[Chisoxfn]

This is sounding awesome, as long as were only giving up a fringe prospect. I'm with ya Baggs. We'd get a true 2nd baseman in Vidro whose an amazing #2 hitter, and we'd be picking up a stud pitcher. I'd hate losing Garland, but they, Colon is a true ace.

[MurcieOne]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

This is sounding awesome, as long as were only giving up a fringe prospect.  I'm with ya Baggs.  We'd get a true 2nd baseman in Vidro whose an amazing #2 hitter, and we'd be picking up a stud pitcher.  I'd hate losing Garland, but they, Colon is a true ace.

 

Where does Jimenez fit in?

[Chisoxfn]

I'd say Jimenez goes to short, with Manos, moving to the outfield. Just a hunch though. That or we just stick Manos as a super sub.

[witesoxfan]

Damn...if only it was Dan Wright and the minor leaguer was maybe Josh Stewart, I could live with it....I really like Jon Garland. I think he is going to be a stud someday....never a 20-game winner, but the possibility of being a 15-18 game winner with an ERA in the mid 3.00s....because he's only 23....he still has about 3 years left to get better, and I think he could do it.

 

Dan Wright can be just as good as Garland, but with his inconsistencies more frequent than Garland's and him being older than Garland(I can only assume since Wright went to college and Garland did not), I really see more room for improvement from Garland.

 

Regardless, it would be a good move. I got one question though....with this move, who in the hell leads-off? Vidro at 2B, Valentin at SS, Rowand in CF....Liefer would probably be our CFer....WHO? Do we trade Jose(Valentin, that is) and use Jimenez at SS? Do we sign a guy like Todd Hollandsworth or maybe Tom Goodwin and have them lead off? Vidro is a proto-type #2 hitter....decent power, but not good enough to be a really good #3 hitter(or not as good as Thomas/Maggs/Konerko would be at the 3 slot), real good average, and good speed, but not good enough to lead off....Valentin sure as hell ain't gonna leadoff with his .310 OBP or whatever the hell it is.

 

I gotta thought....Miguel Olivo. Sure he isn't proven, but he's got good speed for a catcher. And if he could put up a .250 average and draw 50 walks, that'd put him in about the .330 OBP range, which isn't good, but it's probably the best we have. And then we'd have Josh Paul leadoff on Miguel's off-days. OK, probably not, but it was a thought.

 

Maybe we could take a shot at Chuck Knoblauch and give him a shot at LF....he's pretty good defensively, as I remember seeing him rob Thomas of a homer this year, and he's got a good eye at the plate and really good speed. The only question would be could he get motivated enough to hit above .210? If he could hit .270, I think that would be our answer.

[Chisoxfn]

Jimenez would leadoff and play short, with Jose Vidro(the best 2 hitter in the league, imo) would be hitting second. This would really give our offense a great spark-plug.

[Chisoxfn]

The good news is, KW said he wouldn't trade Honel or Borchard even if its for a difference maker, so they won't be part of this deal.

 

I'd look for another relieving prospect to be moved, or a starter like Josh Stewart that is more of a fringe guy when compared to our other pitchers.

[witesoxfan]

Ooooh, one more question.

 

If that move happened, and then the playoffs started tomorrow, who would we have as our #3 and #4(maybe) guys in the postseason? I'd have to guess that we hope that Rauch is a stud and pitches like he did in 2000, but that may be wishful thinking....Wright could fare decent, but can you imagine Wright having to duel against Barry Zito or Mark Mulder? I could understand Colon against Hudson and Buehrle against one of the lefites, but I'd imagine unless Wright showed up with his 'A' stuff, we'd get killed...then again, we'd get killed with Garland out there too.

 

And I have to agree with baggs...this is a typical KW trade....trade a 2B for a 2B and a SP for a SP, with us giving up a lot more players as well.

 

Also, to go along with my post above....is there any chance that they may be eyeing someone in the rule 5 draft to pickup to leadoff for us? Hmmm...

[Chisoxfn]

Would the Sox just stick Borchard in the outfield and let him grow at the major league level?

 

If they made a move like this they could afford to deal with his ups and downs, plus it could be good for him to be with our hitting coach, whoever that may be.

 

Oh ya, may I add this trade only works if we sign him long term.

[MurcieOne]

Originally posted by witesoxfan

 

And I have to agree with baggs...this is a typical KW trade....trade a 2B for a 2B and a SP for a SP, with us giving up a lot more players as well.

 

in all fairness to KW, we are upgrading in both positions..... Jon Garland is my favorite sox player....ever..... but he's not as good as Bartolo Colon, and Willie Harris doesn't deserve the right to smell Vidro's Jock.

 

Carlos would be missed, but it's not like he can't be replaced.

 

All we have to worry about is that PTBNL.... and make sure it's not Malone, or Diaz...... It could be Almonte, considering that we have Koch for 3 years.... and Ring thereafter.

[BridgeportHeather]

I guess this trade would be good IF they can, like has been mentioned here before, trade Wright rather than Garland.

 

Can you imagine the possibility of this as our starting rotation:

 

Colon

Buehrle

Garland

sign Paul Byrd

Rauch

 

This is just plain BRUTAL on our opposition. It instantly puts our starting rotation in the top tier of the majors. With our strong bullpen, we'd have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

[MurcieOne]

Originally posted by HeatherTheRedbird

I guess this trade would be good IF they can, like has been mentioned here before, trade Wright rather than Garland.

 

Can you imagine the possibility of this as our starting rotation:

 

Colon

Buehrle

Garland

sign Paul Byrd

Rauch

 

This is just plain BRUTAL on our opposition.  It instantly puts our starting rotation in the top tier of the majors.  With our strong bullpen, we'd have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

 

If we give 8mil to Colon...... we aren't gonna sign Byrd.

 

Here's what our Rotation would look like if this deal goes down.

 

Buehrle

Colon

Wright

Ritchie

Rauch

 

Still pretty damn good, but...... this is the rotation KW invisions.....2005ish

 

Buehrle

Honel

Colon

Malone

Rauch/Diaz/Wright

[witesoxfan]

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by witesoxfan

 

And I have to agree with baggs...this is a typical KW trade....trade a 2B for a 2B and a SP for a SP, with us giving up a lot more players as well.

 

in all fairness to KW, we are upgrading in both positions..... Jon Garland is my favorite sox player....ever..... but he's not as good as Bartolo Colon, and Willie Harris doesn't deserve the right to smell Vidro's Jock.

 

Carlos would be missed, but it's not like he can't be replaced.

 

All we have to worry about is that PTBNL.... and make sure it's not Malone, or Diaz...... It could be Almonte, considering that we have Koch for 3 years.... and Ring thereafter.

 

I was just agreeing with baggs...I agree with your assessments as well....I was just saying that it falls under the same criteria as most of KW's other trades....not that it's a bad move...in fact, it's a good move and I have acknowledged it already.

 

But baggs is right....it is a typical KW move. Only this time it would actually work out for us.

[MurcieOne]

Oh sorry bout that wite,

 

there is so much KW bashing around these parts that it's difficult to sense when someone agrees with him.

 

But this definitely has a KW smell to it, I wouldn't be suprised if this went down before the meetings are over.

[witesoxfan]

Originally posted by Murcielago

Oh sorry bout that wite,

 

there is so much KW bashing around these parts that it's difficult to sense when someone agrees with him.

 

But this definitely has a KW smell to it, I wouldn't be suprised if this went down before the meetings are over.

 

Hey don't worry about it....it's just hard to look past that kind of thing....when a GM has that kind of reputation, you gotta see that. I'm sure that's the kind of deals we are going to get in the future, unless something is done about KW's job(for instance, firing him).

 

And if it happens, we can all be happy and shove it down the nay-sayers throats. Hey, what a second...I was a nay-sayer for a little bit too....damn.....ssshhh....this conversation never took place.

 

But we were right all along....if KW wants someone, he will try to get him. If he gets KW, we will be right.

 

He wanted Koch, he wanted Ritchie, he wanted Wells...maybe now he wants Colon bad enough to get him. And it would be a great day in Sox history, to get a guy that the Yankees wanted at the same time. LMFAO!

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

Jimenez would leadoff and play short, with Jose Vidro(the best 2 hitter in the league, imo) would be hitting second.  This would really give our offense a great spark-plug.

 

What do you do with Valentin?

[Molto]

I don't like that trade at all.

 

I want Jimenez to play and I don't want to deal Garland.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by witesoxfan

 

And I have to agree with baggs...this is a typical KW trade....trade a 2B for a 2B and a SP for a SP, with us giving up a lot more players as well.

 

in all fairness to KW, we are upgrading in both positions..... Jon Garland is my favorite sox player....ever..... but he's not as good as Bartolo Colon, and Willie Harris doesn't deserve the right to smell Vidro's Jock.

 

Carlos would be missed, but it's not like he can't be replaced.

 

All we have to worry about is that PTBNL.... and make sure it's not Malone, or Diaz...... It could be Almonte, considering that we have Koch for 3 years.... and Ring thereafter.

 

Jon Garland troubles me. Perhaps as other's have said, try Wright and throw in Ritchie's useless ass instead of Garland. Lee, Wright, Ritchie, and Harris straight up for Vidro and Colon. This scenario though leaves a hole in the 5 spot and would force KW to deal or sign another starter..... but it wouldn't have to be a game-maker because the starter will likely be a 4th or 5th starter. It won't happen, but I can dream can't I?

 

1 and 2: Buehrle and Colon (or vice versa)

3: Garland

4: Rauch

5: ?????

[witesoxfan]

Biddle in the 5 spot....and the Sox could sign Lieber too, and maybe try him in August if the Sox are out of it(which they won't be, just to let you know).

 

I'd give Jamey Wright a shot, or Shawn Estes too, if they came cheaply....hell, make Cy Young Porzio happy and give Mike Porzio a shot too....in fact, that's exactly what I say....use Biddle or Porzio in the 5 spot, and leave it at that.

[Molto]

they won't pick up both Lee's and Ritchie's salary.

 

if we deal Wright, we'll have to throw in another minor leaguer.

 

I don't know if I like this deal.

 

I'm too big of a fan of Garland and I don't know if we will be able to sign Colon. IF we do, we BETTER sign Buehrle right after. If we give Colon 7-8 mil a year he'll be asking for and don't sign Buehrle, I will be pretty upset (which is unusual for me).

 

Think about it this way.

 

is it better to have Colon at 6 mil and get 18-20 wins for possibly one season. Or Garland at 500K for a couple years and get 15 wins and use that 5 mil elsewhere?

 

I'm too high on Garland.

 

if that deal were to happen, this is how things would look I suppose.

 

LINEUP

2B-Vidro

SS-Valentin

DH-Thomas

RF-Ordonez

1B-Konerko

LF-Liefer

3B-Crede

CF-Rowand

C-Olivo/Barrett

BENCH

INF-Jimenez

INF-Graffanino

OF-FA (Palmiero?)

ROTATION

Buehrle

Colon

Wright

Rauch

Biddle

 

we still need another arm.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Assuming you get rid of Garland...

 

1) Colon

2) Buehrle

3) Wright

4) Rauch

5) Ritchie?

 

I would rather give them Wright plus, say Sanders instead of Garland.

 

But, w/ Vidro, either Jimenez or Valentin would be gone.

 

1) Jimenez/Manos SS

2) Vidro 2B

3) Thomas DH

4) Maggs RF

5) Konerko 1B

6) Borchard LF

7) Crede 3B

8) Manos/Rowand CF

9) Olivio

 

Assuming we resign Colon (haha), in 2005 we'd have

 

1) Colon

2) Buehrle

3) Rauch

4) Diaz/Malone/Stewart

5) Honel

 

That'd be a f***ing evil starting rotation.

[RedPinStripes]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

I'd say Jimenez goes to short, with Manos, moving to the outfield.  Just a hunch though.  That or we just stick Manos as a super sub.

 

That would be so stupid. We tried that already. Manos throws like a ss from CF. If anything, Manuel would have his tinkering ways with Jiminez and Manos at SS. You know Jerry has never figured out who the ss is since 2000.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Ok, Montreal must trim 15 million from their team....

 

We get:

Colon 8.25 Million (FA after 2003)

Vidro 5.5 Million (FA after 2004)

Barrett 1.25 Million (Should be w/ us for several years I presume)

 

Total cost 15 million

 

Spos' get:

 

C Lee (4.2 million)

Garland (300K)

Prospects (Miniscule)

 

Total cost 4.5 million

 

The Expos would still have to cut 5 million off of their payroll.

[Cerbaho-WG]

BTW, this deal won't happen, unless I s*** bricks of Gold. people are just making up rumors as they go, which I suspected. Someone said that Vlad and Colon go to the Yanks for Weaver, Johnson, and White to Boston who inturn sends Nomar to the Spos'.

 

 

 

NO!