toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 OK all, Im disalusioned with all this trade crap. I read JM's comments on Jose at ss and I agree. Yes he makes errors, but we won the division with his errors in 00 why cant we still? What do yall think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Jose plays SS to win, not to not commit errors. Big Risks = Big Rewards. Jose is money... How many pitchers do you know that try to play it safe and get rocked? Jose is just playing to win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Welcome Aboard Toasty... As far as Jose goes, I don't like him as our shortstop. I will live with him as long as we don't sign anyone. Still, I would love to see someone like Hummell or Harris step up, so Jimenez could move to short with the other playing 2nd and hitting 2nd behind Jimenez. The flaw is, it would be very difficult to compete with two, basically rookies, hitting 1 and 2 in the lineup. We have a very young team, so having Manos out their is probably a good thing cause we at least know what we have in him. Thats not to say I'd rather have a different veteran shortstop or 2nd baseman at 4.5 million a year, cause I would. I do think that everyone over-rates Manos when saying he made the 2000 team. That team over-achieved. Eldred, Baldwin, etc. had career years and the team was healthy. This team is more talented than that one, and it will be interesting to see what happens. If crede develops like I think he can, and Frank comes back with Maggs and PK continually growing, we'll have an amazing offense. Buerhle, Wright and Garland are all pretty decent and developing while Rauch is real good. Ritchie can't be as bad and we have Biddle back their as well. We also have a bullpen that rivals the 2000 one, so things don't look too bad, even if we go into next year without making any more changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 people talk as if Valentin's errors in 2000 helped us. THEY DIDN'T. we just had a great offense, deep rotation, a strong bullpen to make up for it. if great things happen around a player, the performance of that player, no matter how bad, won't have an effect. things clicked in 2000. we didn't lose in 2001 cause Clayton was at short, as much as people want to believe. we lost in 2001 because we simply weren't that good. we got extremely lucky in 2000. in 2001 our pitchers got hurt, Thomas was out, and guys simply came back down to earth. I will accept Valentin at short this year. reason is because we aren't gonna deal him and I feel comfortable with Jimenez, Crede and Olivo in the infield now. they are much better than what we had the past couple years and will make up for Valentin's pitiful glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Moltopeople talk as if Valentin's errors in 2000 helped us. THEY DIDN'T. we just had a great offense, deep rotation, a strong bullpen to make up for it. if great things happen around a player, the performance of that player, no matter how bad, won't have an effect. things clicked in 2000. we didn't lose in 2001 cause Clayton was at short, as much as people want to believe. we lost in 2001 because we simply weren't that good. we got extremely lucky in 2000. in 2001 our pitchers got hurt, Thomas was out, and guys simply came back down to earth. I will accept Valentin at short this year. reason is because we aren't gonna deal him and I feel comfortable with Jimenez, Crede and Olivo in the infield now. they are much better than what we had the past couple years and will make up for Valentin's pitiful glove. but when we won, we had the right chemistry in the clubhouse. the talent didn't really change, except for clayton and the injuries. then last yr we got ritchie for pit and still had a cancer in the clubhouse. how much did that affect us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 I am excited to see crede in his first full season! as for leadoff, i think jiminez will work out, but if he struggles, manos is available. I recall ray-ray being moved from leadoff when he couldnt hack it anymore and manos stepped in and did very well i thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Well, the talent changed the next year. Losing Wells(Or Sirotka, we would of lost either), losing Parque, losing Thomas, etc. It was a big thing the Sox couldn't overcome. I don't think many teams could overcome that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 I think things would have been better w royce had the sox not tried to make jose into third baseman. He's a SS and they should have chosen one and nixed the other, would have saved grief cuz jose said he wanted to play wherever but we know he wants SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Moving Jose around was screwy because it caused all sorts of problems, not just for Jose but for the chemistry of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 I think the closer by committee crap is of the same mind as left side of the infield by committee. Oh and thanks for the welcome chisoxfn, been a soxfan for life, not changing now.... black and silver thicker than bad management and owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Closer by committee is crap if you have a legit closer. No way will Manuel be able to go with any committee with Koch in their. He could with Foulke, mainly because people got on Foulke early. Still, we do have a very deep bullpen and if Koch has pitched a lot, we may just give him an extra day off and go with Marte or Osuna or even Glover if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 closer=glover? hah! glover is middle relief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Trust me on this. Glover in the bullpen is one of the best set up guys in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 yeah, Glover is a damn good pitcher out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 i agree with that but i dont think he has the stuff to be a closer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Two years ago, I Thought the Sox would groom him as the future closer. He's got a hard fastball, a good change, and a nice curve. The guy has enough pitches. I like him as a swingman though, mainly because he can go a couple innings and be a real workhorse out of the pen. Plus, I love Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 If he ever gets his cutter back he'll be one tough son of a b****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 glover i can see coming around but i am not impressed with porzio, we'll have to wait for sp to see what is going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by mac9001If he ever gets his cutter back he'll be one tough son of a b****. The same goes for Buerhle. He lost his cut fastball, which was once his best pitch. Well, one of his fastballs, I think it was the cutter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 If the Sox's young pitchers can step up, we can be a REALLY good team, all we need is Garland, Rauch, or even Rocky to step up and pitch like they did in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 if biddle doesnt work out in the rotation i dont know what to do with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Biddle will be in the pen to start the season, and I'll give him a shot. Otherwise the Sox would likely move him to the minors as an insurance plan or simply deal him. Still, he has had a full year back from injury so he could become pretty productive for the Sox. He has a great fastball and curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 the injury is a good point but i dont know that i like him in the pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I get this feeling that Rauch will start the season in AAA, and Rocky will take the 5th spot. I really like Rocky, that fastball when its on is one of the best in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 as long as rocky keeps his funky sideburns i think he may just pull through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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