Stealth G.O.A.T.

With additional moves (which are happening), the Sox have a chance to compete if things go well given the horseshit division they're. What assets have they wasted?

Agreed on all points, but Pollock is about 5 years older than Joc. Which actually further enhances your point.

Pollock is much more valuable than Pederson?

I agree. I think it's a solid deal for Pollock too.

I think that would be the case even if the price was reasonable or even a steal for the Sox.

No, the Sox want Joc. That isn't LAD pushing fake rumors.

You are correct. I read through it and misinterpreted. My apologies on that.

By virtually any measure, the COMPLETE story of the players is Adam Engel is horrible and Joc Pederson is not. It's just a statistical fact that can't be disputed. Again, this is overall performance, not just offense or defense. Which has been my argument the entire time. Let's tell the complete story. Joc Pederson's offense was NOT wiped out by his weak defense. If that were the case, he wouldn't have been a 2.7 fWAR player in 2018. In fact, if what you said was true, he likely would have ended up a 0.2 fWAR player in 2018 like Engel was or even a -0.8 fWAR player like Engel was in 2017. Instead, he has been 3.1, 3.6, 0.6, and 2.7 fWAR player over the last 4 seasons, with projections for 2019 in the 2.5 - 3.5 range. That's Joc's complete story. Engel will likely never even sniff 1.0 fWAR, even with his great defense. Which means he has to be horrid offensively. Which we all can agree he is. You asked me to tell the complete story, yet point out Joc's worst season in 4 years to make your point. A season, by the way, which was more productive than Adam Engel's season last year. A season which also included two DL stints. One for a groin strain where he missed 10 games. Another where he missed 18 games due to a concussion after an OF collision with Puig. Last, we all agree that Joc has trended downward defensively. The argument has never been that Joc is Mike Trout in CF or even Adam Engel in CF. Hell, I'd prefer Joc in a corner OF position. That said, the argument has always been that Joc is a better overall player than Engel, even in CF. I am not worried about having to platoon Joc against LHP. I am 100% fine with that. The reality is, Engel needs a complete offensive platoon against both RHP and LHP because he sucks against both that badly. At the end of the day, I stand by what I said where Joc and Engel are concerned. There is no arguing who is the better overall player. Even in CF.

Nova is nothing more than a guy who eats innings. If he does that as a 5th starter, then he did his job. Anything extra you get out of him is a bonus. LOL, I am not pinning my hopes and dreams on anything. I am simply stating what the Sox point of view is right now. They feel if they land Machado and a few other pieces, and there is improvements and development across the board from their young players, with the solid bullpen they've put together, they could sneak in and grab a division title in a division that isn't very good. Nothing more. I am not in for a huge disappointment if they don't. They just see an opportunity. Nothing more. If they are unbelievably bad in 2019, there are much bigger problems than failing to catch the Indians. It would mean that many of their players did not take a step forward and even took steps back. Also, the offseason is not over. I believe more moves will be made at a few positions.

The first part of your post, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. I didn’t tell you that so I think you have me confused with another poster. I will address the other part of your post shortly when I have a few minutes.

You’re still not getting it. Nobody has an issue with your speed data. It just doesn’t tell the complete story about the players. Where you run into problems is when you disregard the fact that when you play a good defensive CF who is one of the worst offensive players in MLB, you’re costing your team wins. People are simply saying that Joc’s offensive production and CF shortcomings far outweighs Engel’s defensive production and offensive shortcomings. And it’s not even close. Last, Joc is fine in CF. He’s not a top of the league CF by any means and he doesn’t need to be. You can deal with that given his very good offensive production. Engel is a good CF. But remember, his offensive production is so bad it literally wipes out anything he does for the team defensively. He’s costing the team wins, especially when comparing him to Joc. There’s literally no arguing that point.

To be clear, nobody (including the Sox) believes they are running away with the division. What I said was they see a weak division with an opportunity to strike while sticking with their plan if things go well. Plus, the off-season is not over. There will be other additions to this team. I’m sorry that you feel the entire 2019 season was destroyed by the trade for Nova.

Shack and I are on the exact same wave length. I’m not sure what I’m missing to be honest.

It’s not a matter of if we add Manny, but when.

How so?

All valid points but the Sox don’t agree and see an opening. Which is why they are pursuing what they’re pursuing.

Podsesnik was horrible at reading the ball off the bat. Took bad routes. Couldn’t throw.

Exactly Shack.

Yes, I would agree. As well as another piece or 2.

Exactly right. The rebuild is being expedited.

I agree. Podsednik had great speed and was actually quite bad in the outfield. Albeit his speed allowed him to make up for his deficiencies at times. But he still had some really bad years out there. Plus he had a horrible arm.

I’m going to have to disagree. They see how weak the division is. They believe they can be competitive and contend for a division title this year. Again, only because the division is weak and possibly going to get weaker with more trades by the Indians.

He also wants to win games. Having Engel playing every day doesn’t do that.

I agree. It isn’t personal for me where Engel is concerned. He’s just not good overall and hurts the team more than he helps.

Nailed it. Great post.