poppysox

Many of you use this little debate device of restating the other debaters' words with your personal slant to make it what you wanted him to say rather than what he is saying. I have never used the term "players will cave in and the owners are right" in any of these discussions. I have said the majority of players have little to gain and don't want to miss paychecks and whatever the players win cost-wise will be passed on to the fan. My statement about service time manipulation stated I was referring to Kris Bryant type of situation as you well know. I know you are being deliberately obtuse when you restate my positions so no offense taken.

Nothing new here to respond to.

Poop!

Neither of us can prove his position to be correct. Time will tell.

We will see, won't we?

Madrigal was drafted in 2018 and was promoted to the big club in July of 2020. I don't know if Madrigal felt "well paid" or not but he would have a very little argument about being held down improperly IMO. Kris Bryant was drafted in 2013 and after a great Spring in 2015 was still sent out for more "seasoning". Most fans think the motivation was service time rules rather than his readiness. I don't disagree and have stated that something needs to be tightened up for what seem to be service-time abuses. Those abuses are not frequent and very hard to prove. The White Sox have brought up players earlier than normal and done an excellent job of extending them pre-arbitration IMO.

You have reading comprehension issues. Be well.

I didn't say anything about legitimate reasons to fight for more gains. I have said repeatedly that "the average player" feels well paid IMO and doesn't want to miss very many paychecks. This sitting out the year crap is just not going to happen. No one is dying on any bridge that I know of. I have stated my view until I have no other way to state it. Come back when the lock-out ends. In my view, it will be sooner than you think.

I give up...the lockout will go on indefinitely. Thanks for the enlightenment.

No one is saying it shouldn't be closed.

Who said anything about tough enough? I am saying that most players have little to gain by going to the mat over the arbitration issue that unfairly screwed over Kris Brandt. I think some language can fix that issue since it happens very infrequently. As I have said many times...most of these issues like universal DH are going to be passed with little opposition. Ironically...the biggest injustice I see in baseball is in minor league compensation and living conditions. This work stoppage has nothing to do with fixing that situation.

Kopech?

What sellout are you referring to? Am I supposed to support employees against employers just because you say so? Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong. Perhaps you should try to understand the other guy's point of view. All I hear from you is owners are bad and the players are good kind of claptrap. By the way...this Uncle Tom nonsense is for people unable to defend their point of view.

Watch! It's far more than remotely true. The Kris Brandt thing is their most legitimate complaint and that affects relatively few people. Literally, no one from the White Sox has been jerked around over the qualifying time issue. As a matter of fact...many posters blame the WS for not playing the qualifying time game with Kopech.

The number of players willing to sacrifice a full year of their short careers will be very small indeed. Those long-term gains you speak of would perhaps benefit future players but not many players who are currently in the system. Employees frequently accept deals that create different classes of employees for current and future employees. Employees always seem to vote to improve their current situation rather than strike for future generations. This has happened in many industries including auto and airlines to name a few. I just don't believe that the majority of players are feeling badly treated and underpaid.

At 10 M per year, Escobar was more than affordable IMO. I assume therefore that they have a better player in mind. Yes...I know what is said about when you assume.

If the Sox wanted Escobar we could have had him. They have something better in mind IMO.

The owners will be satisfied with what they have. They will not be satisfied to make less money so that the players can have more. The fan will be paying for whatever it is that the players win. This is a no-win situation for the fan IMO.

Sounds like he has some attitude problems but the same could be said about AJ.

There are employees in every profession that feel underpaid. However, not many professions have the salaries of professional baseball players. I don't think many players feel underpaid in reality. I haven't seen any explanation of how any ask from the union would improve the average player's compensation at all. I have used Leury as an example since we all know he signed a three-year contract at 5.5 million per year. He is a nice but average player IMO. My belief is that Leury feels well compensated and is just happy as a clam with his pay envelope. He will not be happy to miss out for let's say 3 months of the largest paychecks of his life for a new deal that will gain him absolutely nothing. Lastly, it seems to me that players being allowed free agency sooner would play into the hands of a few teams who already have a money advantage over the competition. There is no reason why I want to give the Yankees another advantage over my team.

The Northsiders would be just as guilty as the WS. I might try to get interested in minor league baseball (Southbend Cubs). I was a frequent game goer for the Corpus Christi Hooks AA team when I lived in Texas. Good baseball without Major League prices.

"Round and round it goes...where it stops...nobody knows."

You are very impressive. Are you 14 or perhaps a little younger?

If the union position was about a higher minimum wage I would support it as I have said before. This stoppage is more about arbitration than anything else. The issues being discussed like universal DH and minimum wage could be agreed on in a couple of short meetings. You will also note that I used the term rich people rather than rich players. Both sides of this work stoppage are nuts IMO. You sound like you are the sole arbitrator of what people can say and think on this forum. If being obtuse means not being in lockstep with every/any union action because they are always in the right...you have me there.

It's not a me-first attitude to know when you and your fellow workers have it good. I know you think all the good makeup guys support the union. When a person doesn't agree with you try explaining why he is wrong rather than using name-calling.