Ozzietheairedale

See Anthony - this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree because I believe you can predict that he is going to blow saves in the near future. His pitching is SO bad for a closer that it seems to me its obvious. I 'm just not willing to wait - I'm hopeful we're in a division race, not some last place team with a young closer learning the ropes. I think that a major league manager and GM have to try to predict when a guy is going to fail and protect the team from it. Look at Danny Wright. There's no reason we had to let this guy get us 19 straight losses before we figured out he can't pitch in the majors. I would hope that Ozzie and Kenny can look at his stuff and tell he can't make it - not just wait until he loses and loses and loses and loses....

It just counts for whether or not a guy is pitching well or pitching badly. In my opinion, if your closer is pitching badly, get somebody else. You still haven't answered my question. How many blown saves before Koch is demoted. Let me ask you another question, Anthony. If Koch had an ERA of 0.20, an average of 2 strikeouts per inning and no walks but had blown his last 3 save opportunities because of a wild pitch, 2 hit batsman and 3 bloop singles - would you want him demoted then?

My point is he's NOT getting the job done. Too many walks, too high an ERA and too slow a fastball. I'm just using a different criteria to determine whether or not he's getting the job done than you are. I don't think blown saves is the way to decide whether he's getting the job done because it's arbitrary - it just depends on how big a lead he has when he comes in, not on how well he's pitching. Also I don't know how many blown saves it would require before I demoted him (and apparently neither do you). 1 blown save and you're demoted is unreasonable. How about 2, or maybe 3? It just seems that if you have watched baseball a long time you don't need to wait until this guy singlehandedly loses 3 games for us before you can decide he is no longer the closer. :banghead

Of course not every closer has to be perfect. That's why I'm saying waiting for blown saves doesn't make any sense if the guy IS PITCHING BADLY. He is pitching badly. There can't be any argument about that. The only thing that is saving (no pun intended) him is that he has come in with relatively large leads for a closer recently. You don't mean to say that he is pitching badly on purpose because he has a large cushion of runs, do you? I'll ask again Anthony - how many blown saves would it take before you would demote him?

Anthony - how many saves does Koch have to blow before you demote him? 1, 2, 3? How many? I just think waiting till he blows saves is arbitrary and stupid. The only reason he hasn't blown saves is because of the size of the lead when he comes in, not because he's pitching well. I think we all have to agree he's pitching poorly - too many walks, too high an ERA and too slow a fastball.

If you know what he means, maybe you can explain it.

I'm happy at least that Ozzie is getting guys warming up while Kroch is in there. Basically, this says that Koch is no longer THE closer. No manager who has a defined closer has other relievers warming up while the guy is pitching in the ninth. Ozzie has gotten the message - Koch is done. Hopefully KW is burning up the wires trying to set up a deal later in the season for a real closer. Anybody who is waiting for Koch to blow a save isn't making any sense. All closers blow saves occasionally (except Gagne) and you don't get rid of him because he makes a mistake. Are you really saying that Koch should be demoted because he blows 1 save? I doubt it. He should be demoted because he walks too many guys, his ERA is enormous and his fastball isn't fast enough - and those things are ALREADY facts.

I looked up the stats... Foulke converted 43 of 48 save opportunities last year. Kim, Lyon and Timlin had the majority of save opportunities for the BoSox and converted 27 of 37. There were another 8 blown saves by others on the staff. The BoSox ended up 6 games out of first place. Sounds to me like the reason the BoSox gave Foulke all that money was because they thought that the lack of a closer had EVERYTHING to do with why they failed last year.

That's EXACTLY my point. :banghead If they had the same team last year and came up short because "they had no real closer at all", isn't it worth 3.5 million dollars more to go to the World Series?

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Foulke was traded to the As with 1 year left on his contract. He would have played for the Sox last year. I agree he may not have stayed here this year, but who knows?

As far as this year, we'll wait and see. My suspicion, however, is that Joe Table will be sitting at home in October with the last place Pirates and Foulke will very possibly be playing in the first World Series game in Boston in 80 years. Will he be worth 3.5 million then?

No you aren't understanding the argument. I'm talking about last year. Having Foulke last year would have won the division for us. I will take the division (and possibly the pennant) and give back Cotts' future.

Are you serious? Foulke's numbers last year were 9-1, 2.08 ERA with 43 saves. This year so far he is 1-0, 0.60 ERA with 5 saves. He is worth every dime the Red Sox are paying him. We have Foulke last year, we win the division. Who knows how far we go into the playoffs. I would give up Cotts and Koch for the division last year any day. I can't believe anybody would try to justify giving up Keith Foulke because we got Neil Cotts. Neil Cotts?

I definitely remember Thigpen. And let me say this - I saw Bobby Thigpen, Bobby Thigpen was a great reliever for the Sox. Billy Koch is no Bobby Thigpen. :puke Can you recall a time when Thigpen walked the bases loaded in the ninth? Also, try not to misquote me. I didn't say a great reliever doesn't occasionally have "a lot of men on base". I said a good reliever doesn't WALK THE BASES LOADED.

Didn't KW trade Keith Foulke for Billy Koch?

I don't understand the "he got the save so he's the closer" mentality. No good closer walks the bases loaded...ever. The fact that hitters fouled off lots of good pitches is NOT proof the guy is a good closer, in fact, it's proof that he no longer has that overpowering fastball. Every mediocre hitter is going to keep doing just that to Koch. Alot of his pitches were not even close to the strike zone and I'm not sure Koch has any clue where half his pitches are going when he releases them. I don't know who would be better on the team now. But a closer by committee is the way to go for now. I'm not willing to wait until this guy spoils another team effort. Put a fork in him, he's done. :puke

Tonight was the last straw. Krotch should no longer be considered the closer. There needs to be a closer by committee until KW can find us a new one, probably around the trade deadline. Any time he's in, Ozzie needs to have someone warming up, just in case.

Absolutely...I don't care whether the fannies in the seats are yuppie fannies or rich fannies or north side fannies. More fannies, more money for the team to spend and more excitement for the players on the field. All this silly talk about not wanting fans who talk about their jobs while sitting at the game is just alot of defensive whining because of the comparison to the Cubs . I hate the Cubs, but I would take an exact replica of their fan base any day.

Hey, I hope you're right about the area around Cellular field being developed and worth more than the area around Wrigley. But 5 years? Come on. There is absolutely no way that the Bridgeport area will be worth more than lakefront, north shore properties in 5 years. Impossible. Also, you can't talk about the South Loop and 35th street in the same sentence. There is no comparison. In fact, the renovation of the South Loop proves my point. If Comiskey was there now, it would be standing room only. I wonder what the cost/benefit ratio would be to demolish the Cell and build a new park in the South Loop. I think that's the only way the Sox could dramatically increase their fan base.

Wrigley doesn't need to be downtown because it is in a high traffic, affluent area already. The close proximity of residences, bars and restaurants makes Wrigleyville a great area for a ballpark. Also, Wrigleyville has been "yuppified" for a lot longer than 5-10 years - more like 20 years - which, coincidentally is around the time Cubs attendance and fan base skyrocketed. The fact that all those affluent "yuppies" watched the Cubs on WGN as children and couldn't find the Sox games on TV certainly helped to make them all devoted Cubs fans.

Sorry, but I've got to agree with Mariotti - at least on the location of the ballpark. Keeping Comiskey at 35th and Shields was a huge miscalculation by the Sox and the stadium authority. I want as many "young professionals" in the Cell as possible (more fannies=more money=better players) and if moving the park north would accomplish that - great! Can't you imagine people working downtown walking to a game after work? How about the great skyline over center field instead of projects peeking through? I agree the ballpark itself is fine and it always has been, but building it there was just stupid.

As it turned out, 3 out of 4 of these moves turned out to be correct. The only one I wish we had re-signed was Ventura. McDowell, Johnson and Fernandez did not have productive years after we let them go. :headshake

How can anybody be optimistic about this team? There is no way to look at this team realistically and be optimistic. About what? Ozzie? Give me a break. I named my dog after him and I'm not optimistic!

The ninth inning was a failure because the bullpen sucks, not because Ozzie made the wrong moves. Koch is done, Marte was a fluke last year, Takatsu can't get major leaguers out and apparently Politte can't pitch more than an inning. I agree about pulling Politte after 1 walk, but come on, 6 runs in the ninth? That's just a bad baseball team managed by a rookie manager. The Sox will not recover from this loss. Look out for being 5-6 games back after 2 weeks and out of it by May 1. The Royals will do what they did last year after this big win.

My feeling is that Opening Day is the way the Sox will play all season. The rest of baseball is not wrong about the Sox; they are a 3rd place team in a very bad division that will struggle to win 75-80 games. Their pitching is bad to mediocre and they have a new manager. Question marks at 2nd, center, catching and closer make this season a loser before its barely begun. After 40 opening days, this was the worst for me. And I think it's all downhill from here.