Chisoxfn

I meant it in the sense that the Bears big defensive plays, were largely because the Bears made plays, not because the Rams were just terrible. I never was watching the Rams game going, wow, Goff is terrible and giving the game away, I watched it and thought, wow, the Bears D is freaking everywhere tonight. On the flipside, all but the pick at the end of halftime, was completely on Mitch (and while I will give credit to the Rams D for catching the ball...the passes were just awful).

My big issue last night was the Bears left points on the field last night. I don't think the Rams did. I think Mitch played worse and it wasn't because of the Rams playing great defense. Not to take anything away from the Rams D, but Mitch's picks were almost all on drives where the Bears were moving the football and where he was missing an open receiver. There is no way to sugarcoat it, he played a lousy football game. I'd say it was his worst game all season, by far. Hopefully it was a combination of rust, cold, and just coming back from the shoulder, but he just wasn't sharp. I've said it before but I think next year will be where he takes another step forward, as he has mechanical stuff he has to clean up, and the game is still slowing down for him. Both of those things matter when it comes to consistently being accurate.

I wouldn't mind adding him into the Bears front office. He's a good talent evaluator. I presume he goes to Green Bay or Cleveland.

I also think it concerns me that it almost got to that extent (from the players perspective). I was glad to here Lauri was like, STFU, get here (as was Lopez). I'm guessing Lavine was like...I'm not showing up.

Yes...this. I agree with everything you said. I literally thought I might wake up on Sunday to the Bulls hiring another new coach. Maybe they can turn this all into a positive...who knows...but man, it is not good to have that sort of toxicity around a young team.

Wow awesome win. Mitch get that footwork and mechanics cleaned up. You had one bad pick (decision wise) and a number of just bad throws (to open guys nonetheless).

Yeah...this might be a hot take but after seeing some clips of his post game press conference...he might have just lost the lockeroom and his job. Basically Said the benching saved those guys from further embarrassment. And then went on from there.

Yes the second time he did it was not a good look. The first time was completely deserved. That said the starters were pathetic. Crazy cause the whole team played really well against the Thunder. Like really well.

I don’t even know what game you were watching if you thought the starters got good looks. That was one of the worst offensive stretches of basketball I’ve ever seen. God awful ball movement, god awful shots. It looked like a high school team vs an NBA team. Literally I’ve never seen a team look so shut down on offense than the start of that game. Awful performance. Boylen might have taken things too far, but he obviously thinks this is a soft team that needs to toughen up and he’s making a calculated bet that the message he sends will motivate and not cause the players to quickly tune him out.

Iowa needed that!

I must have missed it in all the Hoiberg/Boylen discussion, but Randy Brown stepped down as an assistant yesterday. https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-changes-coaching-staff

Exactly. Holiday in isolation is not necessarily a bad basketball player, but on a team focused on getting other guys more touches and development, he might not be the right guy. Holiday would actually be a pretty good fit on the Lakers. He'd be a pretty solid floor spacer next to LBJ.

Holiday is really the most interesting guy. He hasn't been bad this year, but he takes a lot of difficult shots and his fit on the roster is just not good when you are trying to get development of others. Lavine and Parker have both tried to be distributors. Parker is actually a pretty good distributor and would do better if we had more weapons on the floor. Lavine has been trying but you can tell being the primary "distributor" is not his talent and it has caused turnover issues. That said, the opportunity and all the doubles he's experiences should be good learning opportunities for him to improve. I think things will pick up a bit with Dunn and Lauri coming back. Portis makes them better and he's a solid player, I just don't think I can really get very excited tying up cap space to him. He isn't ever going to be a difference maker and thus I think he's a guy you hope comes back and plays well and maybe you can creatively move and get other assets (this is an absolute area that Gar/Pax have done a poor job at...maximizing their assets).

Yes...I don't disagree with anything you state. I think the decision had to be based a lot more on what was happening in practice and within the lockeroom vs. the in-game performance. In-game this team was going to be bad, given who has been out.

I will say...I think I was literally the biggest critic of Fred in that first season. I thought he was a disaster and literally was calling for him to be dropped in that first season. It didn't really get much better then 2nd season, however, last year I didn't really have any major negative in terms of Fred. I don't know that I had a major positive, but maybe I just got so used to how lousy he was that my expectations were so low. His first two years, I regularly thought we had one of the worse coaches in the league and the front office is absolutely responsible for that move. I'll also say that Fred is the type of guy that I'll root for wherever he lands next. He truly seems like a great guy and his personality is just a much better fit for the college game, imo.

Oh yeah, I was purely commenting on Blakeny. I used to yell at the TV pretty regularly to pull him...very rarely would he, but the guy just never takes good shots. I will also say, many times I yelled at him, he'd end up making the shot, but I don't think that necessarily makes it better. Personally, I don't think Pax was ever that enamored with Hoiberg, however, their was probably some point in him being a "nice guy" (post Thibbs) and a strong communicator (or so they thought) who they could develop a strong front office relationship with that lead Pax to getting on board with the move. Its like anything...when you break up with one coach, often times teams end up going the exact opposite direction with the next hire. Thibbs and Hoiberg couldn't have been more opposite (literally the fullest extremes possible to be honest). I'd take Thibbs over many coaches in the league, but you can see based upon what happened in Minnesota that he wasn't going to work well with others.

Blakeney frustrates me. The guy who thinks he's the best player in the league. That said, he's the type of guy you don't mind coming off the bench when you are done and need a spark off the bench (losing big, momentum not on your side) who you put out. In the first minute or so you'll know if he will lead you back and create a spark or if he'll just make the hole worse (which at that point isn't a big deal). Play him too often and it won't work as he just doesn't get his buckets in the conframe of an offense.

Separately, I should have a made a post about it at the time (or maybe I did and just don't remember) but I thought the quote from Carter calling out a lack of leadership was really interesting (happened like a week ago). I have to imagine there was more to that comment then just a rookie airing frustration. On a sidenote, did something happen with Blakeny and Fred?

I almost didn't make my post cause I know I'm on an island with my stance. Haha. I've also said, I have zero problem if the Reinsdorf's go another direction either, but I think under Pax we will see this team as an eastern conference contender in the next 2-3 years. That said, if the chemistry all blows up and they miss badly in the off-season, things could change pretty quickly. I'm presuming Boylan could be the last coach they hire, depending on how everything goes. Or Boylan could be the transitional guy (but that means the roster is doing its thing and they think there is the right long-man to gain new guys. I haven't really paid much attention to Boylen other then noticing he was always very engaged on the sidelines and usually yelling or smiling. I remember when Hoiberg hired him as his top assistant I was impressed at his resume (but a resume is purely a resume). He's worked with some all time greats so for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Does Meyer take a year off? Or is he going to head to an Auburn or USC?

I should point out the sleeper comment was more about how they were positioning for the long term...not them being a potential playoff team. My comment on odd fit essentially alluded to the fact that the roster construction still needs work...but talent accumulation and cap space all are well positioned. Nothing is a gimme though and lots of work ahead but a year and a quarte in, I personally am more optimistic vs less. Excited to see how things look when everyone comes back. Seperately, I do not think Valentine or Portis would register as busts. Look at their production vs others in their draft class. Could better picks have been made...sure, but neither of them are busts and both have proven to be solid role players (especially Portis). Neither of them were top ten picks either. But they are/were better then a number of players picked above them. The bulls have been one of the best drafting teams in the NBA over the Gar/Pax era. You can debate a lot of things but their drafting has been in the top ten percent of the league if not better.

Didn't Hoiberg hire Boylen?

Technically he's in charge of the Bulls defense, which had some good statistical season under Boylan (up until this year and I can't really blame him on that). Either way, I laugh at how irate everyone is over this. If there is one thing we do know, its that Fred was not a "special" coach. The Boylan moves seems odd but making a move this early and given how critical the long-term development of this current core is to the franchises future, they absolutely had to give a ringing endorsement to Boylen (anything other than that would create just a chaotic window into contention). They also must at least see some long-term fit from him, albeit, if they really believed long-term, he'd get a 4 year deal. The reality is they'll take a deeper look at everything this off-season and if its a total disaster, then I'm sure everything will be on the table. Somehow I don't see that being the case and my guess is Pax finally decided he needed to make the move now vs. later. I'm presuming Pax saw the lockeroom souring and turning the wrong way and wanted to get ahead of that with a change (and that is why everything happened when it did). I really can't argue the move and find it so odd that so many people that weren't big Fred fans are now speaking up glowingly for him. By the way, the couple people I know who are close to NBA circles have long told me the Bulls are the sleeper team out there in terms of how they are building a nucleus of talent. Odd fit but you can't get overly worked up about that this early in the rebuild. The major issue is/will be how do they add those extra pieces via free agency (or getting lucky and getting a top pick which can be converted into a difference maker). I also think the past year of Thibs era shed at least some light that things weren't entirely on Pax. Of course I've been the long-time Paxson defender and I say that from the perspective if they wanted to make a change, so be it, but I can also envision a future where this team is a regular conference contender again and it happening under Paxson's leadership. I can't predict championships because I think there is too much luck once you get to that point. I think great GM's can regularly make their team's conference contenders but being a title contender involves a bigger component of luck (i.e., normally there can only be 1 best roster and typically that is fielded by the best player and well, sometimes, you have zero ability to get said player). But I do think good GM's can find ways to be above average to very good on a regular basis and I think Pax has that ability.

Maybe I'm reading into this too much, but is the fact that it is Boylan for the longer term mean that basically GarPax have this one shot and if it doesn't work, they are all gone. Either way, while the timing was odd, I think everyone knows enough to see Hoiberg is not an amazing head coach and I can totally buy the comments from Stephan A Smith (regarding players not thinking that highly of Fred). He is a class act though.

Originally, I thought Hoiberg was awful. Last year he grew on me and I saw some development. I've said for a while, I had no idea whether he was good or a turd. I do think we saw enough to know he wasn't great/elite. The roster design the past year and a half was not one where you could really state the Bulls should be winning games and I'm not putting that on the front office or the coach...its the nature of a rebuild. I do think it is clear that from day 1, Paxson was skeptical of Hoiberg and the wording of the release made it very clear this was a Paxson move.