Chisoxfn

Philly is making serious run at Boston's #3 pick and dangling its young bigs. Not sure if Boston does any of it straight up. Everyone knows Boston wants Buckets badly...if you get enough leverage, things could work out...but I don't think the Bulls FO has it in them to make this type of role the dice move. That said, I didn't think they had the guns to move Rose either. I also have no idea if any team even comes close to making the offers outlined above, either.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) I'd need an active player from the Celtics as well. I probably do as well. What you have to wonder is, is there a scenario where the Bulls / Celtics / Sixers dance with Butler going to Boston, and Okafor / Picks to Chicago, and Philly getting young player from Chicago / Boston + picks.

In summary, the only way I'm moving Butler are in deals where he is in the centerpiece and we are getting back the following (not saying these other teams would do it, but what it would take for me to do it...and to get the below, I am on board with giving up other guys / picks as sweetners). My elow list is in order of preference with the Wolves / Lakers ranking above the Celtics. Twolves: Wiggins & #5 pick Lakers: Russell & #2 pick Celtics: #3 pick + next year's pick (just for Butler...no sweetners here, such as giving up our pick or something)

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 01:17 PM) It's just bulls***. The Bulls would never win a deal so hard. I think it is a more realistic offer than getting Wiggins plus 5. Russel has a lot more questionmarks associated with him than Wiggins and while Ingram is a really good talent, Wiggins has already proven himself. I think the Lakers would consider such a move, especially if they legitimately think they have a shot at a bigger name player (and they think Butler is more likely to help them get said player). I think this deal, theoretically could make a lot of sense for both teams.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) If that were part of their decision making it would say a lot about how management values personal issues with people compared to winning. Agree, but sometimes the personal / emotional side is hard to ignore (unfortunately). I do think a bigger term deal which would include someone like Taj (plus our 14) could ultimately drive something to happen where you essentially start building around Dunn, Wiggins and a s***ton of cap space for next year (maybe you sign someone like Barnes with that space to fill up your backcourt) or maybe you try and sign a Horford this year so that next year you have that vet to go with the younger assets that you are going to try and sell a Durant / Westbrook / etc on. Ultimately, I don't see the Bulls moving Butler, but I absolutely think from a rebuild perspective, if you could legitimate get Wiggins and the 5th for a package headlined by Butler, that is the type of move you have to absolutely consider. If all I'm getting is one or the other, than it is harder to do, unless I have a lot of confidence in specific targets around what I can leverage that cap space for.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) Trading Butler for Wiggins and a pick makes so much sense on paper if the Wolves are willing to do it. The Bulls could then take Dunn and you'd have 2 young studs to build around. But makes little sense to the Wolves, unless Thibs just flat out thinks Butler is the star he needs next to Towns (and he doesn't see it working with Wiggins).

Watch us trade Taj for Ricky Rubio. I do think if Taj goes, it will be to add picks or do something that allows Bulls to make a run at a young PG.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 09:44 AM) Do the Bulls have the cap room to take on almost $10 million? They have quite a bit of space. Remember, cap alone shot up a lot. If you remove Gasol and Noah from the equation, plus consider moving MJD or Taj or Niko and you can really clear a ton of space. If Bulls wanted to, they could make some moves to have just massive amounts of cap space this year, but I don't know the rationale for it, unless of course it is to get Durant plus. Nothing else in this market is worth taking up so much space that you can't make at least one max offer a year from now (when the FA class is much stronger and far more likely, imo, to actually relocate).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) So Woj is reporting that the Hornets will trade #22 if someone takes Jeremy Lamb's contract 3/21. Is this something the Bulls should consider in order to get another 1st rounder? I think the Bulls should consider buying draft picks, however, I think if they do, it should be because they can leverage the multiple picks to move up and get a more talented asset. Quality over quantity right now, imo. I don't think Lamb is that bad of a role player, either, but again, you don't want to tie up all your longer term cap space on "role" players. Is Lamb's contract expiring at the end of this year, so Charlotte's move is to clear cap space immediately? If so, I definitely could see the Bulls being able to leverage that strategy if their plan is to make a major push at a big time FA in 2017.

Jimmy Buckets will be playing in the olympics. Could be a good opportunity for him to start recruiting other potential FA's / showcasing the type of teammate he can be (so hopefully he is on his best behavior). I hate the extra minutes he's going to play, but I also view it as a really good learning experience for him to be around some of the best in the NBA.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 09:15 AM) Rondo was pretty awesome again last year. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying awesome, but he was a much better player and looked a lot healthier than he had previously. You know his limitations (offensively) but he is an excellent passer and I thought his defense improved again this pats year (I might be wrong and clearly he had a stretch where he was a pretty good defender and than post injury he had some issues but he is getting healthier). I really don't think Rondo would be that bad of a fit (especially if you could get him shorter term). You do wonder the chemistry side of the equation but Sacramento was so dysfunctional.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 07:21 AM) I know. Taj is up at season's end and they talked about getting more athletic players that fit Hoiberg yesterday. I think they might take a one year plan and go a lot of one year guys and thus have a ton of flexibility a year from now (outside of Lopez who they added). Might be wrong, but I also don't think the Bulls have fully defined that plan.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) Players that could be traded today: Tony Snell, Mike Dunleavy Jr, and Taj Gibson. I think you have to include Niko on that list.

I think we are going to see them go after a Rondo or Conley type player and look more for longer term, but to be frank, I think they are still figuring that out. Noah is probably on the way out, although it is definitely plausible that Pau and a Rondo are both brought in on 1 year deals (which wouldn't be awful as the team would theoretically be better, while still be in a position that a year from now they have cap space). I'm guessing the PG position plus having Robin Lopez instead of Noah will be the primary moves (don't know if Pau would actually come back for that) but having his buddy as a backup PG might help. Conley would be really nice, but I don't know if it makes sense to go longer term and that is what I think it will take to get Conley (who is a big upgrade over Rose, but, at the same time, is coming off some injuries himself and is getting older.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 06:48 AM) For sure. Regardless, their next moves should be dumping Dunleavy and Taj though. I'm not a huge Jimmy Butler guy but he is a top 20 player in the league. Maybe even better. The Bulls need a ton to move him. If Boston gave me #3, and another 1st this year with Brooklyn's 2017 pick and Jae Crowder + filler I'd do that. The Bulls can't move him for #3, Crowder and Bradley or a TWolves package without Wiggins though. It's just not enough value. Honestly, I don't know hat they are going to move Dunleavy & Taj though.

Woj's take below (summarized): Woj saying he can't believe how much the Bulls got for Rose. Also thinks Rose will stunt KP's development. Both he and Shams aren't sure Rose understands how much scrutiny he'll get in NYC. Shams also says the tension between Rose and Butler was real and that the FO had to get rid of Rose so Butler can be the leader of the team.

The next thing I expect to hear about is how the Bulls tried to trade Niko and others (along with our pick / other picks) to move up to get Dunn. I don't think anyone will bite, but I certainly think we are going to try and get in some 3 team deal with someone picking in the top 6 spots to try and land our longer term PG. That said, I think the Bulls are more Bullish on Grant than others. Grant did play pretty good when he finally got some action very late in the season for the Knicks.

Buckets averaged 27/7/7 in games that Rose didn't play in last year. Some of that is inflated by that huge game in Toronto, IIRC.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 04:10 PM) K.C. Johnson ‏@KCJHoop 2h2 hours ago Gar: "We value Jimmy. He fits in the direction we're headed." Interesting that Melo's people reached out to Rose and Rose wouldn't talk to him either. Ignored the Bulls during the off-season, ignored Butler's attempts to have him train with him and Taj (evidently Rose ended up no showing)....yeah, not exactly enduring things for a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations after his injury. Reports are that the Bulls have spent a lot of time engaging in discussions with Butler around the future of the franchise, etc. I think it is pretty evident (even the league chatter is the Bulls continue to say no and that includes turning down some solid proposals) they think pretty highly of Jimmy.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 04:03 PM) Just be glad you didn't grow up admiring Kirk Hinrich. I'm going to buy me a Hinrich jersey. I'd always be able to wear it with a sense of pride. I have nothing but good memories of captain Kirk. Than again, I was the resident Hinrich homer.

Thought the below nugget was interesting. I will caveat this by saying I don't know much about "win shares" and what defines them, but I do know under a lot of advanced stats Rose graded out really really poorly: Of the five players involved in the trade, Rose had the fewest win shares last season. The Bulls' three acquisitions (10.6 win shares) were worth 9.4 more wins than the Knicks' two acquisitions (1.2 win shares).

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 03:15 PM) Jason I have to believe you had the luxury of not watching the Bulls last year to find Butler ball entertaining. Would much rather have suffered another year of hell and faced 2018 fresh than with this news that we are trying to "retool" (worked great with Sox, Jerry) with Pau Gasol Jimmy Butler and Robin Lopez as our core. Kill me now. LOL at resigning Gasol. For the next four years we are basically the Brandon Jennings Milwaukee Bucks without fat OJ Mayo to gawk at. Maybe we'll get lucky and McDermott will put his baby fat back on. I watched almost every Bulls game. Butler was not what was wrong with the Bulls, but the dynamic with him and Rose was one of the things that was wrong. Derrick Rose was awful, the team had a lot of injuries, including Jimmy Butler, and well Hoiberg was terrible and part of that might have been due to Butler pushing him wrong and everything else, but we need a real PG. Just look at the overall team and how much better they were when Rose was out vs. in (both offensively and defensively). On the flipside, the opposite happened when Buckets was out. The two players were just awful fits alongside each other.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) God I hope Pau isn't back. WHAT'S THE POINT?Only makes sense if they have some hidden acquisition up their sleeve and I don't possibly know how they could acquire it via trade (they could make a big signing)...I just don't know how they make a big signing while keeping Pau (although I suppose they could trade Niko/Taj or others and than make a big signing and keep Pau).

I should point out, the team with the most downside from this deal is the Bulls because if they legitimately were planning on aligning for 2018, they should have just kept Rose and seen if he was super explosive during the first half of the season as they could have gotten more value at a later date. I say this because Rose clearly has the athleticism to still be a very good player...he just hasn't had the mental capacity / confidence to do so. So from an upside perspective, NY has more potential upside and I think it was a very good deal for the Knicks (gives them more payroll flexibility a year from now too).

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) Yeah I listened too and he sure didn't go full blown "we are committed to Jimmy" by any stretch of the imagination. My bet is that Jimmy is gone too and I am not sure it will be for the haul that Bulls fans want. It may be for a high first and a throw in and they take their lumps. I think it is more that they know it is a dynamic and fluid situation and they are aware that they need to be able to adjust on the fly and be a little more creative / think out of the box than they have done in the past. I still expect Jimmy to be here unless we see just an absurd offer come across Gar / Pax's desk.