CWSGuy406

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2008 -> 11:22 PM) Quentin should be also, if healthy. He's been a 900 OPS guy his whole way through the minors. Do you have any idea at all about the hitting environment that he put those .900 OPS' in? Your statement also makes it sounds like Quentin will be a .900 OPS guy next year. I'd bet a decent amount of change that Quentin isn't a .900 OPS next year.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2008 -> 08:18 PM) Sheff also just turned 39, and IRod 36. Funny that this is mentioned but the ages of our offensive core isn't. Also, our defense (as it stands today) is terrible. I think the Sox stand two have two above average defenders (and one of those guys will be stuck in LF) with everybody else being average or below. Of course, this would change dramatically if the Sox trade Konerko for a package of Figgins and/or Kendrick.

Terrible terrible terrible GWG given up by Khabibulin. Absolutely brutal.

The complete lack of depth on defense -- as things stand right now -- is what's killing this team. I don't think Richmond saw a shift in the third (rightfully so) and Zyuzin is just as much a liability. The third period was basically Savvy rotating Seabrook, Keith, Barker and Byfuglien back there with Zyuzin occassionally getting a shift. Sopel and Wizniewski returning should returnn everyone to their places. Seabrook and Keith looked dead after the game -- there's just nobody else Savvy can realistically go to. If there's any good to come out of this, it's that we're getting good looks at some of those 'tweener' types. I think Versteeg can stick -- he's got some great hands and he's not afraid to play physical. The jury is still out on whether he can finish but he's in no way overmatched here. Skille also had his best game up here. Obviously it's easy to say that when he had two points, but he played with a bit more energy tonight and that was visible as he was also playing more physical and doing a better job on the forecheck. It also looks like Barker has moved ahead of Zyuzin in the pecking order, so like I said -- when Wiz and Sopel do eventually return, we'll be back to normal in having some level of confidence in all six of our defensemen (I understand, BTW, that Barker and Byfuglien are still making a lot of mistakes, but I'd say in the cases of both of them their upside outweights their mistakes, especially with Byfuglien who is becoming a real asset on the PP).

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 8, 2008 -> 10:25 PM) Dye played excellent defense in 2006 and had good speed on the basepaths. Something he didn't have in 2007. In Dye's three years with the Sox, he has never played "excellent defense" nor has he had "good speed on the basepaths".

So they speak French here in Montreal -- weeee! They're probably going to get killed tonight, but I'm excited -- it's my first time seeing the Hawks on the road, and what a venue to see 'em at. Place will be packed tonight.

Why has OSU gone away from their run game? It seems like all they're looking for on offense at this point is the homerun play. I don't think they stand a chance in the second half if they go away from Wells.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 10:59 PM) I can't imagine anyone cheering for LSU though. Those of us with LSU giving 4.5 beg to differ.

That's a shame... they played their asses off tonight but there's just not a whole lot of talent on the ice right now. It's a rather depressing state of affairs. A reasonable amount of injuries and I still think this team would've been right around that eight spot (at this moment in time), but honestly -- what the f***? Toews (twice), Havlat, Wizniewski, Sopel, Williams, Bourque... that's two top six players, two decent third liners and two more #3-4 defensemen. I'll be at the game in Montreal, which will most likely be as depressing as tonight was. Can't question the effort, but damn does this suck. Finally we have a team that is capable of *competing* with any team in the NHL, and injuries absolutely ravage the group.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 08:52 PM) Marquette's in a lot of trouble loses in Huggyland. Fixed. Bummer, but a bit of a reality check for them.

Marquette's in a lot of trouble in Huggyland.

f***ing Comcast... we're supposed to be getting a free preview of ESPN Fullcourt starting today and OF COURSE they're having "technical difficulties".

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 06:57 AM) Also, special asshole of the award tonight to Lapointe. Goes and puts his team down 2 men after the Burish penalty. That's leadership at its finest. They score to make it 3-0, and that's game over. Way to go Marty. I'm interested to see if you thought the 'Yotes player also deserved a penalty. That looked far from a 'hip-check', as he get no 'hip' at all.

Marquette... Marquette... I hate to be a fanboy, but damn we're tough to beat right now. Deep squad (even without Mbakwe) with a solid front-line. I don't know if I have it in this thread, but I was quietly had high hopes for Lazar Hayward heading into the year -- and damn has he become a weapon. I also hope some certain 'bashers' of a certain MU basketball player have been watching the this season...

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 01:50 AM) Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's). We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that. And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:30 AM) The Sox still have a lot of talent on their roster and the Indians and Tigers are far from a lock to make the playoffs next year. If we were to go on percentages, they're better bets than the Sox are, that's for sure. You keep bringing up Crede... why? If Crede's at third that means Fields is in AAA, and Fields playing but one more game in AAA would be terrible. He has nothing left to do down there. If you stick Fields in left, that means the Quentin trade was utterly pointless, as he -- like Fields -- has nothing left to do in AAA. You also keep bringing up Cabrera, like he'd bring in an absolute haul at the deadline. I got news for you... Cabrera wouldn't bring back anything more than one B prospect (or a couple of even lesser prospects). Teams aren't going to give up top prospects for an average-ish player who you're only going to have for two months. That's really not my problem. It was stupid for Kenny to make that promise -- when thinking about the long-term health of this franchise, saying "we're going for broke in 2008" is stupid as hell. I don't have to defend what Kenny said to JD or MB, especially if I don't agree with it in the slightest.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 10:09 PM) Their core offense (Paulie, Thome, Dye, Swisher, Cabrera, Fields, and perhaps Crede) is going to f'n rake this season. That's a VERY strong lineup. No stronger than Boston's, New York's, Detroit's, Cleveland's and maybe even Anahiem's. I didn't devalue any of them -- you're just overrating them. Konerko has no range at first. His hands are good, but that doesn't make up for the fact that he's a statue there -- he's below average there, not atrocious, but below average. Dye, on the other hand, is atrocious -- I believe most of the advanced metrics had him ranked as one of the worst (if not THE worst) RFer in all of baseball. The matches with what my eyes tell me -- his range is non-existant at this point and it looks like he's running in sand and with two pianos strapped to his back. His arm is still fine, which is why the Sox would be greatly served to put Quentin in RF and Dye in LF. The same goes for Fields, who's instincts looked poor to me except when he had to come in on balls -- those he did okay on. My eyes matched the metrics, as Fields' defensive numbers pro-rated for a whole season were as bad or worse than Ryan Braun's, another terrible defender at third. With Cabrera, I don't see how I devalued him at all. He's a good defensive SS, but again, defense at shortstop hasn't been a problem for the majority of the past five years. Value-for-value I think the trade is fine. Swisher is a fine ballplayer, and there's a lot of risk (but also a lot of upside) in the players the Sox gave up. My issue goes back to the beginning of the winter when the Sox made the decision to "GO FOR IT!" in 2008. The Sox are still behind at least five other teams as far as talent on the 25-man roster. A lot would have to go right for the Sox to be neck-and-neck with Detroit and Cleveland next September. Sort of like people said they'd do this deadline? Yep, teams were jumping at the gun to trade for Dye -- I'm sure they'll be more willing to do the same for a 35 (?) year old Dye.

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:07 PM) The Sox must have a lot of double headers scheduled to fit 193 games into next sesason.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:37 PM) Outside of losing Garland, I think that Kenny's done a halfway decent job of doing what he said he was going to: Re-tooling this team for one more shot at the playoffs... I'm sorry, but that's a terrible goal to have. I think the goal should be prolonged success, and the Sox don't look to be in that position. Their core on offense (as we sit today) is still very old. That could change with good years from Quentin, Fields and (to a much lesser extent) Richar, but for three of the four 'core' offensive players are in their mid-30s (Konerko, Dye, Thome and the fourth who isn't, Swisher). And we're still without a CFer, as it doesn't look like Swisher or Quentin could do anything better than average out there (and talking long-term, neither project to be CFers for the bulk of their -- hopefully -- long careers). If we were playing our first game tomorrow, we'd be an absolutely terrible defensive team: C - Pierzynski - average-ish. Not going to hurt you but he's nothing wonderful either. 1B - Konerko - Terrible range, great hands. Overall probably below average. 2B - Richar - TBD. SS - Cabrera - Above average, but it's been a long time since we've had a bad (or even below aveage) defensive SS -- yes, Valentin included -- so... 3B - Fields - Below average-to-brutal. LF - Quentin - Well-above average. The smart move would be putting him in RF. CF .... (If it's Swisher, we're below average.) RF - Dye - Terrible. That's why I have to think a Konerko trade is on its way. For a team that stresses pitching and defense and has done so since before the championship season, you CANNOT go into the season with Nick Swisher in CF.

Who wants to break-in the *new* top ten? Don't be shy -- just throw ten names at a dartboard and you probably won't be terribly wrong.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 08:18 PM) He is the #8 pick in June. Oh -- so you can guarantee me that the Sox will go over slot to grab the best available high school pitcher in the draft? Neat!

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 08:07 PM) And Gio/Sweeney/DSL were going to be the answer? Sweeney is still suspect and the Sox actually got value for him (I should note, if I were an opposing GM I'd have traded for Ryan cause I think he'd be a steal in the sense that you buy low and it could really pay off in the long term). What I'm saying is the Sox are now in a better spot to contend in 09. I honestly think that quietly Kenny is turning his attention to getting as many quality guys he can for 2009 and hoping maybe things work out perfectly in 08 but if it doesn't you'll see him making tons of moves at the deadline to try to get things in place for 09. Hell have you seen me call the Sox a contender in this thread? I've only said they could maybe slug there way, hoping that the offense can carry them completely while the young pitchers develop. I don't see what changes from 2008 to 2009. Will anyone from the farm be coming up that will make us a contender? We basically know what we're going to be getting from Swisher -- we're going to get a player in his prime, an .850-.900 OPS player who's certainly going to be very valuable. But I don't see how this move affects 2009 anymore than it affects 2008. Even if the Sox made a ton of deadline-day moves in place for 2009, the players the Sox would be getting back would be prospects, not guys who would be ready for 'big-time' in 2009. Teams aren't going to be trading the Sox 24 year-old players who have already shown they can 'stick-it' in the big leagues for the Paul Konerko's, Jermaine Dye's and Jim Thome's of our roster.

I see I'm one of the few 'negative' ones in this thread. I don't hate this trade, FWIW, just not a huge fan of it. I'll like it more if I find out Swisher can play an average CF defensively -- I haven't read anything that says he is, though, other than people saying he played 60 games there last year. If my 'guess' (because that's what it is, a guess) is correct -- that Swish was out there due to necessity and nothing else -- then we now have three corner OFers (Quentin, Dye, Swisher) and two third basemen. The move I'd love to see at this point would be Konerko for a CFer or a good young back-of-the-rotation starter (not as the centerpieces, mind you, but as part of a package) with a big huge (defensive) rotation then occuring.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:45 PM) People keep on saying that, but a lot and I do mean a lot of people here thought the Sox were a legit contender. This year, not so much. I really didn't see it necessary to respond to that post. On top of what you said, the competition was nowhere near as good. Minnesota was seen as our main competition (2005), and they weren't really a great team. Cleveland was a young team coming into it's own and Detroit was weak. The same goes for Boston, Anahiem and New York -- the quality of the AL has improved DRASTICALLY since 2005.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:33 PM) and almost as bad as Detroit! We have a Rick Porcello? Can you point him out to me?