Soxbadger

Rock, The only facts that matter are what was said between the assistant and Paterno. None of the rape victims told Paterno, itd be a hell of a lot different if they had. Right, read the facts. Sandusky and Curley said that the GA reported it as horsing around. They also use words such as "not serious", etc. If youve ever read a criminal complaint, it reads as if every allegation is a fact, regardless of whether or not its true. There is a reason why a grand jury indictment is not a conviction, what we are reading is the govts best argument, and even then its not really clear what was said to Paterno. But hey, youre right, thats what you want to hear isnt it?

Im not even sure what you are trying to say. But I do get that its a lot easier to react to terrible tragedies by wanting to kill everyone as some sort of an attempt to make things right. Unfortunately there is really no correlation. Destroying Paterno wont save more children from being molested, it will just destroy an 84 year old man. I understand the easy answers, I just choose to give the hard but just answer.

Rowand, If its not a mistake, then what is it?

This really needs to be put in perspective. Brian Kelly's direct action caused the death of a student, he is still coaching today. There was no talk of ND death penalty. Its crazy how people swarm and want to destroy a guy.

At a Grand Jury you can present evidence that would not be allowed at trial, such a hearsay evidence from people who never saw the crime, etc. All an indictment does is allow the govt. to actual prosecute the case. Calling a guy guilty after an indictment and taking it for fact, is the equivalent of calling a team the Super Bowl champion because they won their first game. Once again, Paterno reported entirely unreliable evidence to his superiors. He could have called the police, but if he called the police and it turned out this was wrong, he ruined his friends life. Thats not exactly a great position for any human to be in. As you see, even being an alleged child molester is enough to ruin your life. Paterno chose to tell the appropriate people. He chose not to go beyond. Its a terrible tragedy, but destroying Paterno doesnt fix it. It just completely screws the situation, because now Paterno is a villain. The simple fact is that in the future all a coach will do is not report it. Had Paterno just completely covered it up and lied, he never is touchable. Kind of sad. By all accounts Paterno has been nothing but a saint for PSU, we all make mistakes. And even if its entirely true, I still think its hard to justify firing Paterno for not calling the police.

Is there any evidence that Paterno witnessed a crime? Any evidence at all. Im seriously asking because you are all taking a grand jury indictment as fact, when its completely bogus. Everyone got their pound of flesh, but what is being done to Paterno isnt right. He isnt the criminal here, he isnt the one that saw a child being abused, he is the guy who reported to his superiors as he is supposed. He had 0 credible evidence to call the police about, its seriously absurd. But yes I get that its far easier to crucify everyone, than to ask yourself, should Paterno be given a fair chance to defend his actions. Im sure you all know at a grand jury you dont get to present any exculpatory evidence, and that a grand jury is nothing like a real trial and that many people are indicted and found innocent. /shrugs I get that it easy to say lets kill Paterno, but some of us have to try and be fair, regardless of how terrible the crime may be.

It absolutely should make a difference. Paterno is an old man, he cant fight this. If he was 30 years younger, you think he goes down this way? At worst the guy made a significant error in judgment that is completely unrelated to his job. At minimum he deserves some sort of investigation/hearing where he can speak with PSU about what actions he took and whether or not he followed the rules of the school. Because he did nothing wrong legally (based on the current facts, which is why its way to early because grand juries are jokes, basically anything can be used as evidence, regardless of the whether it could be used at trial).

The only acceptable outcome is to railroad some one on a grand jury indictment, where they arent even charged with a crime? Where they didnt even see the crime? Where they only heard about it a day after it happened and reported it to their superiors for further investigation? I think there are a lot of other acceptable outcomes and some of them include not rushing to judgment. I personally think Paterno is done as a coach, but to fire him over this is just an excuse to get rid of the guy. If he was 30 years younger and in his prime, this story has a way different outcome.

I think we also have to recognize that Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty. A grand jury indictment is not even close to a conviction. This is just to be devils advocate, but what happens if it turns out that Sandusky is innocent? It would be a lot different if Sandusky was convicted.

Its easy for people who dont handle or work with sensitive situations to say what they would have done. Its a lot harder knowing that if Paterno reported it, and it wasnt true, that Paterno could have basically ruined his friends life over hearsay. If the graduate assistant believed he saw a crime, it was up to him to get the police involved.

Milkman, Hard to fire an employee when you as the employer are far more responsible. Thats why they are going to let him retire. Paterno reported it to his supervisors, firing him is a classic case of kicking your dog because you screwed something up.

You mean a grand jury after being presented evidence was able to determine credibility? Thats a lot different than someone walking into my office and saying one of my secretaries murdered a janitor last night and they didnt call the police but are telling me. Maybe it happened, maybe it didnt, but its up to the person who witnessed the crime or AD/President to make that decision, not Joe Paterno who is a football coach.

Rock, The article you quoted does not show any evidence Parterno had first hand knowledge. If the graduate assistance thought he saw a crime, he should have called the police. The second the GA didnt call the police, waited until the next day, you have a serious credibility issue. If I see someone being murdered on the street, I call 9-11. I dont go home call my dad, think about what we should do, and then report it to my boss. I just dont see how its logical that Paterno should have called the police (the next day when he saw nothing), when the actual eye witness did not call the police. It makes it seem like the eyewitness maybe is exaggerating, its hard to tell. No one has shown any evidence that Paterno ever witnessed any wrongdoing of any kind.

If anything Paterno is really the one with the least culpability. He didnt witness the crime, when told about it, he reported it to the people who could do something about it. You can say he should have been more active etc, but there is no evidence (so far) that Paterno ever witnessed these actions. Putting yourself in Paterno's shoes, hes known the guy for years hes never seen anything, now hes being told the guy is raping kids in the locker room?

Id have to see the facts, but generally the people who report a crime are those with first hand knowledge. Not some one who heard from some one else. That being said, its not about right or wrong, someone said what he did was against the law and I would have to see the law. I think most reasonable people would have reported it, but Im not sure its a crime.

Id have to see the law, because Paterno did not have first hand knowledge, he only had "hearsay" evidence. He reported it, hearing about an alleged crime is a lot different than witnessing an alleged crime. Its a bad situation, but its not that easy to say everyone should call the police with really weak evidence.

Big game against Detroit.

Accidental option look.

At the end of the day, LSU and Bama are coached by Big 10 guys. Right now the difference between the SEC and everyone else is success in the NC game. I dont know how great of an indicator that is (but it is the best one we have). The other difference is over-signing and that practice just needs to go.

Call on the field was incomplete and the review wasnt entirely clear. I thought it was a TD in real time, but refs called it the other way to start.

Infantry, You love capitalism? I assume you are for increasing immigration then. Because as Im sure you are aware, capitalism is about the free hand of the market and labor (supply) being regulated by the govt is not capitalism. Unlike you, Im not just going to throw around insults. You have no idea what I want, you just throw around insults. Im a liberal, like every founding father. You hate liberals, I just assumed that since you hate them, youd hate our founding fathers as well. From your own admission youre a conservative, which at its most basic philosophical level is against change. I dont support the protests, Im not against the protests. I think people have the right to express themselves, and I think that our system is broken. So if as an unintended consequence change for the better is made due to these protests, that is a good thing. But through out history, all protestors have been called "morons" (or worse) by the conservatives of the time. English conservatives called American's morons (American revolution was the most liberal movement arguably in the previous thousand years), French aristocrats called the peasants "morons" when they revolted against the inequalities. So yeah, you can call liberals morons, but your insulting every single American who built this country. /shrugs

Im sure that people in England called American revolutionaries morons for protesting taxes from the crown. If you dont think there is something wrong with our current system, that is fine.

The rumor is that at the White-Red scrimmage last weekend Brust looked very impressive. I believe he lead all scorers and had a pretty good deep shot. Supposedly hes going to shock (although Gasser has been saying Brust is going to be good) people with his improvement. Some talk that Badgers may play more 3 guard with Gasser, Taylor and Brust. Duje is still raw and probably wont get a lot of minutes, but sounds like he is trying to be more aggressive.

Im pretty sure Florida would take any 1 and done, Duke can be more selective.

Shows what I get for believing Balta's post.