Y2HH

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 01:52 AM) Will the latest tragedy, coupled with the movie theatre massacre, influence your decision whether or not to bring children into this world? Do you believe your children will have a fighting chance to have a career in which they can make a good living? do they have a fighting chance to enjoy a better lifestyle than their parents? Or are you afraid you are bringing them into a world where they will not be able to find a good job? The economy has been bad for so long it's hard to envision it getting much better, it's hard to imagine prosperity again. Do you think the dangers within our own country (our citizens murdering each other) and the international threat (China, others who may want to blow us to smitheeens) are so scary and real you would not want a child to have to face these dangers? Do you believe the polluting of our country by our own citizens will increase the natural disasters and droughts and assure a land that has horrible living conditions? Do you want to bring children into a new age of horrible weather and atrocities? Just curious. I personally think most parents will want one child, two at the very most because of the scary world we live in today. You can always view the world in a negative light and try to hide away from all the evil of the world, but histoically, there have always been such issues in different packaging, be it famine, plagues, disease or school shootings. But through all of them, life went on. The sensationalist media makes it appear as if nothing but crime and death are what occurs out there, but the reality is that it's the minority of what's happening...it's simply magnified to the point that we think of such events as the norm...it's not the norm. Life is ultimatly doomed on this planet anyway, but that's not really the point of living in the first place...in the grand scheme of things we live a very short amount of time in this form of life. Don't hide from it, because there are things in this world so beautiful that can bring tears to your eyes, things that aren't sad or tragic, but awesome to be a part of. People always have a chance and these same questions are always asked, generation after generation. Will they have a chance at a better life than us? Not sure...because life won't be the same for them as it is for us...the world is changing and they will change with it. We endure. We always have.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 15, 2012 -> 07:19 PM) Rooted and installed Nova launcher on the Kindle Fire I got. It just got so much better... I'm interested to know if that altered the devices stability at all? Have you seen any noticeable or functional issues with doing this? Any incompatibilities?

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 07:23 PM) I'm not a tech expert, but I basically come to this thread to read Y2HH's posts In the Filibuster, I do the exact opposite Mean.

I had some time to think on this during my quiet drive home from work... Emotions are high...and at this juncture, I'd recommend everyone take a step back and reflect instead of trying to rile up a hive-mind mentality to push a partisan agenda regardless of which side of that line you stand on. Your ideas may or may not have stopped this crime from happening today, it's all conjecture, so please, stop being mean to one another just because you disagree on on the how or the why. This isn't the time to push your personal agendas...that makes you an opportunist of the worst kind. Don't be that...everyone here is better than that. There will be a time and a place to have this discussion, and it's clearly not right now. Right now the only thing you should be discussing is how much you love your family, friends and to reflect on what happened today so this tragedy doesn't snowball and become lost in nothing more than a partisan argument. Innocent lives were lost, including those of children. Step back.

It's just a very complex issue...I wish guns were never created...I really do. :/

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) I read your correction, but I wanted to clearly destroy that myth. When I read through the thread it truly is shocking how many people 1) dont even know the laws and 2) think that they have some great understanding of criminal behavior when they themselves are not really criminals. Strange Sox, I meant that people who claim you cant control guns. People who claim you can do use that argument. I made an edit to that...just in case you missed it. Here was the edit: And I fully understand your point on legally obtaining it elsewhere...but then you're ignoring the proceeding criminal activity of transporting it to an area where its not legal and cannot be legally registered. This makes the entire process ILLEGAL. I understand your point it's too easy to obtain that way, and it should be made harder, but it also highlights that these people are ignoring the laws anyway.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) This once again is false. You can legally obtain the gun. If I have the proper permit in Texas, I could go to Texas and buy a gun that is not legal in IL. Therefore I legally obtained the gun. This is the problem. If you have X city where you cant buy pistols, but Y city next door, you just go to Y city to buy them. You keep bringing up drugs, but that is just a false equivalency. Illegal drugs are harder to obtain than legal drugs. When I was a kid and wanted drugs I needed to find a dealer, hope he was legit, hope he didnt rip me off, etc, etc. When I was a kid and wanted alcohol I simply stole it from a store or a parent. If guns are legal in any sense, they are easier for criminals to get. Every person who is a criminal understands this. Especially because smart criminals have accomplices who can buy the guns legally and then give it to the other person. Its not a very difficult system when the item you want is legal and its simply how to obtain it. It is actually much harder to get something off the black market. And the other part that no one wants to mention is that guns are very sophisticated tools to create. You cant just grow a gun in a forest. You cant cook up a batch of guns in an rv. They take factories, they take raw materials that can be traced. You really dont know that. If this guy could not have gotten a weapon, maybe he doesnt kill anyone. You have to acknowledge the fact that all of the criminals who will easily obtain guns on the black market, are generally not buying them so they can commit a mass murder. They are buying them for criminal enterprise, so their entire system is to keep it unknown. The last thing you want is some guy taking your black market gun and killing 30 children. You will be caught. That is another part of the black market, sellers dont just sell to anyone. They arent going to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars of business on a single weapon sale. You can legally obtain it, but you CANNOT legally bring it into Chicago, nor can you legally register it...so no, it's not false...you just didn't read my entire post. And I fully understand you point on legally obtaining it elsewhere...but then you're ignoring the proceeding criminal activity of transporting it to an area where its not legal and cannot be legally registered. This makes the entire process ILLEGAL. I understand your point it's too easy to obtain that way, and it should be made harder, but it also highlights that these people are ignoring the laws anyway.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) Technical distinctions appreciated, but my point was that they are not exactly Wyatt Earp type six-shooters. They are high-performance, high-repeaters that hold clips. Magazines.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) So? Someone who's snapped but still has easy access to guns can easily do those sorts of things that someone who's snapped but does not have easy access to guns cannot. You don't need to plan something like this out if you have the guns laying around already just because. Here is where I agree with you. I do think guns laws/restrictions can work if enforced properly. From purchase to registration. But the penalties on illegally obtained or legally obtained guns that are then brought into areas with restrictions on that type (think Chicago with hand guns), and not registered need to be much much more severe.

A semi-automatic's trigger must be depressed for every round fired...it will automatically chamber another bullet, but it will not automatically fire it, until the magazine is emptied. A fully automatic's trigger can be depressed once, and it will continuously fire and reload until the magazine is emptied.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:57 PM) Yes, Automatic hand guns No. Semi autos. Not the same.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) Reports are this guy used a Sig and a Glock. Those are automatic weapons, if not assualt weapons, are they not? They're hand guns.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:52 PM) So you suggest everything remain the same or find a way to arm everyone? Something has to change. Again, no one really knows if it would have made a difference today, but you really have to be in denial if you think it wouldn't make a difference any day. I agree with this...something has to change.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) Drugs, of which alcohol is one, do not represent the same type of demand as guns do. It isn't even close to comparable. But "people willing to spend top dollar" for guns means that people have to spend top dollar and that when someone with schizophrenia goes off of their medication, there's not guns laying around all over the place for them to pick up and start shooting. edit: I can make bathtub gin or beer or wine on my own pretty easily. my great-grandparents built a home in Kankakee to do exactly that! fermenting fruit or grain isn't that difficult. owning a machine shop and building guns is considerably more complex. You make a solid point...while no, the market isn't the same...the fact is the market exists. I think it's very possible that adding restrictions on the sale of legal guns, AND enforcement of their registration is of the utmost importance. The biggest problem is getting caught with a gun illegally doesn't carry nearly harsh enough punishment, especially when we add probation into the mix.

My point is rather simple...anyone that has a hand gun in Chicago, obviously has no care for gun laws, or they wouldn't have it here... Is it too easy to obtain them elsewhere and bring them into Chicago? Yes. This cannot be denied. However, that still doesn't dismiss the fact they're bringing them here illegally, across state/county/city borders. I think laws should be harsher on anyone that has illegal guns. I have no problem with this. I also I think stores that are linked to selling guns often used in crimes should be shut down. I have no problem with proper restrictions. But this sudden want to pretend as if all the guns out there will suddenly disappear overnight is inane. 1) We have a f***ing gang problem in this country. A huge one. Start taking care of that and a lot of these other problems would seemingly disappear. 2) WAY harsher penalties to anyone caught with a gun illegally, whether they used it or not. 3) Restrictions can be place on legal gun shops from selling guns to anyone out of state to avoid them not knowing the other states laws on gun ownership. 4) All guns should be registered. 5) Criminals will find a way, and not follow any of those laws.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) Yeah, I believe 0 deaths actually But it could have been the exact same death toll if the person used a blade a little larger, without a gun. The guy still had the time to stab 20 individual children.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:39 PM) But the gun was originally bought legally, thus obtained from a store legally by someone. If that dries up then where do they get them? ...elsewhere?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) LOL, where does Chicago end dude http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/1471565...o-buy-guns.html And again...if you are going to own a gun legally in Chicago, you have to register it. Thus...it's NOT legal.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) yes, they gave guns that were purchased legally. And I was wrong 268 of the almost 1400 last year came from one shop, not 267. And I repeat, those were NOT obtained legally. Handguns cannot be sold in Chicago, or registered in Chicago. Thus, anyone with a handgun in Chicago that is not a law enforcement official obtained it illegally and did not register it...illegally.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:33 PM) According to statistics, it would put a HUGE dent in it. Over 267 crimes last year most of them homicides would never have happened in chicago. First and foremost...stop with your statistics that are completely made up. Hand guns are ILLEGAL in Chicago. So any gang banger with a handgun living in Chicago did NOT legally obtain it, register it and own it in this city. If they got them from a gun store, the store sold it to them ILLEGALLY. You claim these are legal purchases, no...they are not.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Yelp a place to buy cocaine, let me know what you find out. I'll find the nearest place to buy a gun. Lets see who finds it first. Wasn't the point, and you know it.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:31 PM) Look up. They were purchased legally Show me facts, you're the one that made the false claim that all the gangbangers in the US have legally purchased guns...which is an absolute f***ing lie.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:26 PM) How dangerous is a "gang member" without a gun? Wait a minute, suddenly these criminal gang members don't have their illegally obtained guns? Do you live in reality or somewhere in the matrix?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:26 PM) Right, you wouldn't eliminate gun violence. But now in that hypothetical we've severely restricted access such that you need to go black-market and pay a good sum of money. It's a lot more difficult than going to Bass Pro, and you're not just going to have weapons laying around in so many homes that can easily be picked up when someone snaps. Sure, someone really dedicated can still plan this out, but a couple of teenagers in Colorado aren't going to have an easy time getting their hands on some guns and neither would this guy. You seem very sure of this...but I suspect you wouldn't be quite as sure as you seem believe if you actually ever tried. A person that's never bought drugs before probably thinks they're hard to get, too...and I'm not talking about marijuana, either. Where there is a will...there will be a way.

As John Stewart said, in times of crisis when everyone is watching...amplify our problems and simplify our solutions...because without fail, that solves every problem every time.