Y2HH

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) Well, if it ended the strike, then yes it would? Wow, your reality distortion field is as strong as Steve Jobs's was. :|

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) I don't think I'm voting for the lesser of two evils. I think they're both good men and fully intend to do a good job. I think one has a terrible philosophy. The other I admire, even if he doesn't or hasn't implemented it to my exact expectation. So your justifying why you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Got it. Religious people do this same exact thing.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-r...0,3401712.story This is Reddy's fault.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:47 PM) sure. cuz you're right. but that doesn't mean there isn't a lesser of two evils. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Here's my problem with that being a part of the debate. If those are really the issues, why not forgo the raises to specifically take care of problems such as classsize, supplies, classroom conditions, etc? If it isn't about money, don't take the money that could be used to address the "real" problems, and put it in your pocket. Because it's not about the money!$#@!#@!$!

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:04 PM) you might recall a certain congress that may or may not have been fighting every single measure put on the table... Yet he was able to get it through anyway. Could have done something more than just make some minor (yet necessary) changes to insurance.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) *sigh* do we really have to go through this again? I think Obama has done some f***ed up s***. I think he's a p****. I think he's got no backbone. I think his first term showed how unprepared he was for the office. however, he's given me healthcare, made my student loans manageable, and for that alone he's worth re-electing in my book. I was just messing with you on that point. And the student loans thing, wasn't that just an expiring extension of something GW Bush did? Aside from healthcare, which is a can of worms in and of itself, he's GW 2 in every regard. * For healthcare, I think he did well to do some basic insurance reforms...but it didn't do nearly enough. Doctors/hospitals and pharma is still able to do whatever they want in regard to cost. People continue to blame insurance for being so expensive...when they're not the ones that send the bills. The ones that send the bills, however, weren't touched. I find that annoying.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) The problem is people that should vote GOP might just stay home. If that's the case, maybe they should stay home. I don't feel anyone "should" vote for a party...they should vote for a good candidate...and right now, Romney isn't helping his own cause. That said, I wouldn't vote for Obama, either. Romney has time to turn it around...like I said, I don't feel that things like this hurt elections unless they happen right before the actual vote. But if he keeps doing this leading all the way up to the election, he's just making it easy on Obama.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:33 AM) Why is it that everything either candidate does "won't change anyone's vote"? Something has to change them or there wouldn't be turnover in these elections! It's not to say that it won't change anyone's vote. It just hasn't done so yet. These types of things CAN change a vote if they happen RIGHT before an election takes place...not months out. I'd venture to guess that people not voting changes elections more than people "changing their vote" does. I do not believe that a vast majority of voters actually change their votes...they just decide to not bother voting. I think Obama wins this election barring something crazy happening RIGHT before election day. For example, if gas prices skyrocket and the stock market goes down 1000 points over the 4 days leading up to the election...if that happens, he may very well lose. But it has to be fresh in their minds/in their faces. It cannot be something they said 2 months ago, which is like eons in the modern voters mind. They won't even remember this in two months, and if they do remember it, they won't remember the details. As far as I'm concerned, we have far far far too many party voters in this country. I find party voters to be mindless drones, and I wish they'd stop voting all together and go buy themselves a clue.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) lol you have absolutely no idea if it will cost him votes or not. and you're absolutely wrong. by your logic, the moment the candidates are announced, people already know who they're going to vote for and we should just have the election then. if what you're saying is true, can you explain why polls swing one way or another over the course of a campaign? Before I begin, you can't say I have no idea that it will cost him votes or not, and then claim that YOU have idea that it will. By YOUR logic, if I can't have any idea, neither can you. First, the votes only matter in swing states...the other states are already a foregone conclusion. Second, the votes only matter in swing states to independent voters. Is it possible he lost some? Sure. Is it possible he lost none? Sure. Is it even possible he gained some? Again...sure. The VAST majority already know who they're voting for long before the election. Take you for example...from the beginning, before Romney spoke a word, you were voting for Obama. See, I do have an idea...more so than you, because unlike you, I think both candidates are terrible. Where as you come into every conversation with an inherent bias toward loving Obama. So you couldn't see the other side of this argument if you tried.

At this point I have to back off this thread, because I realize I'm just trolling SS at this point... I'm anti-union, so having discussions about the benefits of them isn't easy...I see them do more harm than good these days. They were more necessary before workers rights existed. I think I'd have less of a problem with unions if they weren't the political/bureaucratic organizations they've become. They don't stand for the same ideal they original did...they're a corrupted bastardization of what they once were...where the guys at the top of the union are now just as rich (if not richer) than politicians, all the while stealing from their own pensions/union members, not to mention brokering deals that are back breaking to cities/states/people.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) this is a pretty big bombshell... and if the polls do enough reflecting of it now, they won't come back up. I still don't think it matters come November. Peoples attention spans are far too short these days.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) Only if you conflate everything as a "benefit" But then I'd ask you to define something that benefits the children that wouldn't benefit the teachers that they could strike over. We should be wanting to make their jobs easier so that they are more effective. They will be NO more effective after this strike ends. How much would you like to bet that the school system continues to get worse, despite all of these "added awesome benefits for the children"?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) Better in an electricians pocket, supporting the middle class and circulating back t through the economy than in some rich guys offshore tax haven. Yet another nonsensical statement from you. How about putting it in the pocket of a NON-union middle class guy who runs his own handyman business, who woud do the SAME quality of work for 1/10th the cost? Oh, no, we couldn't have that...not from a union loving goon like yourself.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 10:27 AM) Game, set, match. Thanks Mitt, you beat yourself. ...and if too many liberals believe what you just said, less of them will actually turn up to vote. Careful. Keep in mind that anything they say right now, almost nobody will remember in November.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:10 AM) Nope! Go watch those Chicago tonight segments from last week that i linked to. Every last thing you just listed in that post above is a f***ing benefit to them. Again, I repeat, stop hiding behind the children like little b****es, which is exactly what they're doing. At least I can respect the LF teachers for their greed and lack of bulls*** surrounding it.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 10:31 AM) who's to say they'll vote at all. Romney literally just said he doesn't care about them and he wants to raise their taxes. (by saying that they aren't paying enough and should be) It didn't cost him any votes. It didn't gain him any votes. If they were going to vote before, they still will...for the same people. In a day, they won't even remember this, or they'll deny he said it...they have an episode of Big Brother to watch.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:06 AM) Do you actually want to understand what they are striking over or just keep insisting that it's only about money those greedy assholes. I do understand what they're striking over, and it's money and benefits.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 10:33 AM) But your point is, simply put, nonsense. You are ignoring 99% of the story to make it fit your narrative. Tell me what I'm ignoring then...it's glaring that you never do. What, exactly, are the teachers doing here that isn't for themselves that, in some way, equates to them making more money, for less or easier jobs?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:00 AM) Thus decreed y2hh, and it was so. Thus decreed StrangeSox, and it was so. That's easy to do. And ignorant.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 10:33 AM) But your point is, simply put, nonsense. You are ignoring 99% of the story to make it fit your narrative. We disagree. You're point is what is, simply put, nonsense. Not only that, but you have an inherent bias here, and it shows. The story fits my narrative because teachers are greedy douchebags that don't deserve a raise, during of all times, a recession that has 8+% of the country out of work, and huge deficits, pension shortfalls, etc. The CPS teachers want more money for less work, and a better all around situation for THEMSELVES. Don't f***ing stand there and pretend they're doing this for the children. This is the same bulls*** argument they're using, and it's a lie. Just can it.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) Well yeah, he's wrong on that, unless he's throwing in "easier job" (less students, shorter school day, more guarantees that a s***ty school won't be closed) as a "benefit." My point was simply this. They're being greedy douchebags just like the LF teachers are being, only the LF teachers are being more up front about it. That is all.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 09:29 AM) And right there we have a good summary. None of the other benefits workers have ever gotten are important. 5 day work week? Child labor laws? Improving classroom conditions? All disingenuous and you have no right to thank unions for any of those, you should be thanking the generous people who granted those benefits. They're the good guys. Unions are just greedy and out for money, totally unlike anyone else. This is a completely different argument now. There was once a use for such unions, that use no longer exists. They're now corrupted, bureaucratic demonizations of what they were originally created to be. And again, if you can't see that, it's because you're sticking your head in the sand purposefully. Businesses CANNOT and would not, in this country, get away with 7 day work weeks, no-child labor laws, etc...all illegal now, with or without unions.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 09:16 AM) You have some impressive telepathic abilities to know for certain from the minds of the teachers that the evaluation stuff and class size stuff are simply unimportant. How many mind-melds did you need to conduct to establish this? Is your selected population statistically significant? This was a stupid counter argument. I base it on the fact that this is EXACTLY what unions do via collective bargaining, over and over. You don't need to be a mind reader to see it, either, you just have to open your eyes, which you've shown you won't do with that ridiculous post.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 09:20 AM) To be fair, if greg can be warned by Jason for beating a dead horse, I'm sure you can be warned for beating a dead horse. Especially since he's made it clear that his primary goal in doing this is to get under people skins and to be a troll.